Majority Report Radio: post SHOW post

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May 14, 2004

post SHOW post

thanks to all our guests

dave cross- from tv and movies- big deal

Barry Crimmins aar & legendary political satirist
Al Giordano, narconews.com

Bill Scher's Hot Blog Picks
Confined Space-- news analysis on workplace health and safety issues
Fight For The Future Blog of the SEIU
Nathan Newman insight from the labor activist and writer

Tony Clifton site

The MattS article quoting the 2000 GOP platform:

Posted by majority at May 14, 2004 11:01 PM

Comments

SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!SUPERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!! Love u all!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Vicious at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM

Do a show in New York for the Dems

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM

neocon...fear...sociopath...control...new world order

Posted by: Nobody at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM

oooh weekend thread

Posted by: cate at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM

Great show!

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 14, 2004 11:02 PM

Great Show!

Thank you guys-have a good weekend

Viva la Greenland!

Posted by: Rico at May 14, 2004 11:03 PM

fanfuckingtastic

Posted by: Becca at May 14, 2004 11:03 PM

That David Cross dude needs a website.

Posted by: wanda at May 14, 2004 11:04 PM

Great show.

keep bringing back David Cross!

I love you Janeane!

Posted by: Bender Bending Rodriguez at May 14, 2004 11:04 PM

What did I miss?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:05 PM

Good Show. : )

Posted by: Calon at May 14, 2004 11:05 PM

yeah david cross is a good guest
heavy on the humour but not too light on what should be spoken about

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:05 PM

HEY!
.........EY!
............. eY!
..................eh
.......................e
...........................*

hey!.........theres an echo in here!

Posted by: Vicious at May 14, 2004 11:06 PM

What did I miss?
Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:05 PM
=================================================

Complete, indexed archives of MR and OFF, and partial archives of other AAR shows available for download at:

http://www.AirAmericaPlace.com

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:07 PM

I know it's a long post, but this is from a friend of mine, and I think it puts a lot of what we are fighting for into focus.
--------------------------------
“TRUST US"

by Stephen Rohde

Liberty and truth are said to be the first casualties of war, but human dignity and the rule of law are too often mortally wounded.

On April 28, 2004, CBS broadcast horrible photographs of the shameful abuse at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad. Since then we've learned of over 1,800 more images of torture, humiliation and degradation.

Just hours before 60 Minutes II broke its self-imposed silence and revealed the evidence of the outrageous acts committed by American soldiers in the name of bringing democracy to Iraq, the U.S. Supreme Court was hearing arguments in the historic cases of Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi, two American citizens who have been held for over two years in navy brigs as "enemy combatants," without any charges, without access to lawyers, indefinitely for so long as the "war on terrorism" lasts.

At one point during the oral argument, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg asked deputy solicitor general Paul D. Clement, whether in time of war there are any limits on executive power. "So what is it that would be a check against torture," she asked, without knowing that her example was hardly hypothetical. The exchange continued as Ginsburg pressed Clement, until he eventually declared that when the U.S. government is on "a war footing," you "have to trust the executive to make the kind of quintessential military judgments that are involved in things like that."

Trust us.

Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander at Guantanamo Bay, where released prisoners have alleged they too were subjected to brutal and humiliating detention and interrogation, recommended last fall that military guards in Iraq should be "enablers for interrogations," actively "engaged in setting the conditions for successful exploitation of the internees." When pressed on how conditions at Abu Ghraib would be reformed to prevent abuses, Miller told reporters, "Trust us. We are doing this stuff right."

Trust us.

Within days of 9/11, after saying that the terrorists should be "brought to justice," President Bush announced that he wanted Osama Bin Laden "dead or alive -- either way. It doesn't matter to me."

Trust us.

In his 2003 State of Union address, President Bush said that more than 3,000 suspected terrorists "have been arrested in many countries. And many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way: They are no longer a problem of the United States."

Trust us.

On April 30, 2004, to explain why a year earlier he had declared "Mission Accomplished," President Bush took credit for removing Saddam Hussein and said that "as a result, there are no longer torture chambers" in Iraq.

Trust us.

Once the Abu Ghraib torture scandal could not be ignored any longer, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld went public, apologized and defended himself. When that didn't quell the outrage, Vice President Dick Cheney tried to silence Rumsfeld's critics. "People should get off his case and let him do his job."

Trust us.

But, instead of blind trust, the rule of law depends on establishing legal standards and insisting that they be met. The Third Geneva Convention obliges all signatories, including the United States, to treat prisoners of war, civilians and other protected persons humanely and to protect them against acts of violence, threats of violence, intimidation and insults, to not subject them to cruel or degrading treatment, to not engage in torture or other forms of physical or psychological coercion for the purpose of extracting confessions or information.

If we merely trust the American government, what do we say to the 70% to 90% of prisoners detained in Iraq since the war began who "had been arrested by mistake," according to coalition military intelligence officials, as cited in the February 2004 report of the International Committee of the Red Cross?

The Geneva Conventions are very clear on the central point that anyone captured in armed conflict is deemed a prisoner of war, unless a "competent tribunal" decides otherwise. The United States has not convened any "competent tribunals" “ military of civil “ anywhere in the world where it is holding individuals captive. Not in Afghanistan, not in Iraq, not in Guantanamo Bay and not at any of the other detention facilities under U.S. control.

Instead, President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld have declared that Taliban and al Qaeda fighters do not qualify for protection under the Geneva Conventions because they belong to "terrorist" groups. But under international law, binding in the United States, our government is not entitled to make such unilateral decisions.

That's why the conventions require "competent tribunals." Taliban soldiers were fighting on behalf of the government of Afghanistan when they were captured. They plainly qualify for protection under the Geneva Conventions. The issue may be less clear with al Qaeda but that doesn't eliminate the requirement of "competent tribunals."

Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) insists that the U.S. must apply the conventions in all cases. Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) agrees and adds the chilling warning that if the U.S. flaunts international law it could encourage mistreatment of U.S. civilians and soldiers taken captive.

And now it has been revealed in testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee that the U.S. Military has created two lists of acceptable interrogation techniques: one for all detainees and another requiring special authorization by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of the U.S. forces in Iraq. Among the methods on the special list are "sensory deprivation," "stress positions," "dietary manipulation," forced changes in sleep patterns, isolated confinements and use of dogs.

Sen. Durbin noted that some of these procedures "go far beyond the Geneva Conventions," which explicitly state that "no physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties." Kenneth Roth, director of Human Rights Watch, called these special techniques "blatantly illegal," and observed that the lists "look like someone tried carefully to avoid torture but forgot about the parallel rule against cruel and inhumane treatment."

It cannot be that the United States is allowed to exempt itself from the rule of law, in a war being waged to defend the rule of law. We have a name for that “ the end justifies the means “ and that led to the Holocaust.

Unless each person in the chain of command from the President of the United States through the Secretary of Defense to military commanders and individual soldiers abide by the rule of law and are individually punished when they do not, the difference between lawlessness and civilization disappears.

No one said it better than Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 75 years ago: "Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself."

-------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen Rohde is President of the Beverly Hills Bar Association. This essay will appear in the June issue of the Association's Bar Brief newsletter.

Posted by: Rico at May 14, 2004 11:07 PM

david cross has a site!
http://www.bobanddavid.com/

Posted by: n69n at May 14, 2004 11:07 PM

He com uld flat top

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:07 PM

Cross good. Me drunk.

Well, not really.

Read what I said about Souter in the earlier blog. I didn't spend all this money on tinfoil for nothin'.

Posted by: Smallbottle at May 14, 2004 11:08 PM

Al com grovn' up slowly

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:08 PM

he got ju ju eyeballs?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:10 PM

I'm not good with languages other than my own, but I translated Fishgrease into several others, and then re-translated back into English, and as best as I can tell, it means Poison Lube Job.

Posted by: wr at May 14, 2004 11:10 PM

J&S
Great show as always. You guys are both too cute not to be on tv... or at least a webcam thingy.
THANKS FOR BEING YOU!

Posted by: Debbie at May 14, 2004 11:10 PM

he sa holi roller

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:10 PM

seriously though, us liberals have got to stop looking at our feet when faced with these assholes, if he's wearing a suit (and i'll bet he was) and spouting shit, then you look him in the eye. Never take your eyes off his, don't let somebody who needs to use tactics, because his point of view is weak, put you in your place, you are a liberal right, so you have the ultimate strength on your side, truth is your trump card

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:10 PM

damn! you listening to this?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:11 PM

he sa, one an one an one is thre

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:12 PM

We don't all look at our feet in the face of conservatives.

I've made grown Republicans wet themselves.

Brooks Brothers tropical worsted can really smell like hell, let me tell you.

Posted by: Smallbottle at May 14, 2004 11:12 PM

'e got feet down b'low his knees?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:12 PM

who the hell is Al playing quotes of???

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:13 PM

Attention XM Majority Reporters or friends of XM Majority Reporters:

Please help with the growing coalition that is trying to get XM to stop cutting of Janeane and Sam for... Alan Colmes. We want the whole show, not a truncated presence. Stop going to the pointless customer service to complain... go to the top (well, almost the top) please e-mail
Kevin Straley
Vice President
Talk Programming
XM Satellite Radio
kevin.straley@xmradio.com

Voice your concern, and please do not allow him to tell you that Alan Colmes is a "fresh progressive voices that deserve a national platform at this time."
If you mention Sirius, he will also spew a line or two about Sirius preempting their feed of the Air America channel for sports on most nights and weekends... those are the two moves in his game of chess.
Thank you from the bottom of my XM owning heart.

Posted by: XMowner at May 14, 2004 11:13 PM

...got ta be a joker cuz he's too hard to pleeze...

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:13 PM

That was Savage (weiner)

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:13 PM

'old you in his arms yeah you can feel his disease.......

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:13 PM

come together

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:14 PM

right now

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:14 PM

this is a funny bit ... puts the whole polling thing into perspective

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:14 PM

...and speak in tungz...

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

over

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

nite all...have a fabulous weekend

Posted by: Becca at May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

That does it. From now on I'm getting one of those little pee bottles the truckers use.

The monkies! Tell me about the monkies!

JESUS I SUCK!!!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

That was Savage? I don't have cable, so I've never heard him before. isn't he the one who wishes aids would kill gays?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

me?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:16 PM

Cathy in Seattle-
He's playing quotes from Michael Savage, the biggest scum on earth.

Well..not now, now he's playing a friggin flute!

Posted by: Debbie at May 14, 2004 11:16 PM

Cathy, he's using the Bush approval numbers chart on their site as sheet music.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

I'm intimadated, and strangely attracted to her.

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

these Al recordings are historical - first light, after darkest time

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

nice dueting with you, PEACE IN

Sorry I took the second verse prematurely

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

JESUS I SUCK!!!

Thass what we bin tellin u dude!!!

Godophile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ; )))

Posted by: Vicious at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

Fishgrease,
Portland streams from 11 PM - 2AM Eastern time:
http://www.620knews.com/main.html

Posted by: KAS at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

yup ... he's seriously wacked

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:17 PM

Monkees:

A made for TV musical group, loosely based on the English invasion and targeted toward teenies.

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:18 PM

hysterical & historical

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:18 PM

Fishgrease you are the blog GOD

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:18 PM

Thanks, Kas

You're a life saver!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:18 PM

2001 - 2004: a little bit of 1984 and a little bit of a Philip K. Dick world. Blood and shit rains and reigns.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:19 PM

~~~ Fishgrease you are the blog GOD ~~~

No... I am a feeble minded idiot with a weak bladder.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:19 PM

Terrific Bloggin Gang!

Nite Becka!!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 14, 2004 11:19 PM

you guys are gettin slap happy now

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:20 PM

Greasy, can't you download the show at Airamericaplaceforum.com?

Or is that you can't wait til it shows up there?

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:20 PM

Gotta lighten up on the Stoli. Had to go to 640x480 just to see the damn blog!

Perchlube: You missed your 15 minutes of fame on hour 2. Rumor has it Janeane wants your love child but she only gave you a 5 minute window to call in, You blew it bud. I tried to call in for ya but my hottie wasn't buyin' it!

Can't wait for the Sunday talkies for questions and references to Fishgrease's Manifesto to Rummy and Wolfowitz who will promply place their sidearms to their temples and commit hari kari. You old dawg.

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 14, 2004 11:20 PM

no no no they said your name like 100 times

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:21 PM

Later, Becca

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:21 PM

I think the whole evening has been a little punchy ...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:21 PM

And that David Cross segment was in the top two so far... easy!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:21 PM

Slap Happy:

A cowboy film character from the fifties, often casted as the chuckwagon cook.

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:21 PM

2001 - 2004:
a little bit
of 1984
and a little bit
of a
Philip K. Dick
world.
Blood and shit
rains
and reigns.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:19 PM

Beauty pome bud!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 14, 2004 11:22 PM

like it or not that makes you king---all hail fishgrease!

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:22 PM

~~~ Greasy, can't you download the show at Airamericaplaceforum.com? ~~~

Yeah... it just seems so... I dunno... vain?

Damned right I'm going to download it!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:22 PM

I heard celticman called in saying he was you, fishgrease.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:23 PM

I thought that you were supposed to de-vein fishgrease?

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:24 PM

Hail to the Fishgrease! What are your wishes m'lord?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:24 PM

I knew you had to have it. I have tapes of me on the radio on call-ins.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:24 PM

Mmmm.... white zinfandel. The Geo Metro of wines.

Posted by: Harrumph at May 14, 2004 11:25 PM

~~~~~~ Perchlube: You missed your 15 minutes of fame on hour 2. Rumor has it Janeane wants your love child but she only gave you a 5 minute window to call in, You blew it bud. I tried to call in for ya but my hottie wasn't buyin' it!

That's okay about Janeane... my heart couldn't take it anyway. But seeing Wolfey scratch his head and say,

"Fishgrease?... I'm sorry, Senator... I thought you said Fishgrease."

THAT... I'd die for!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:26 PM

Speaking of Roscoe ... check out this link:
http://www.arie.org/doh/

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:27 PM

Mmmm...Thunderbird. The subway of wines.

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:27 PM

Attention XM Majority Reporters:

Throw your Clear-Channel-Evil-Empire receivers in the fire, take your lumps, and go buy Sirius!!!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:27 PM

Anyone else notice how nice and clean this blog has been since Seder blocked that fool I riled up this afternoon about Rachael Corrie?

P,L,D

Ernie

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:28 PM

Yes, Ernie, also no bible pages (Kings I or Samuel)

Say, how many other trolls disappeared at the same time?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:29 PM

Yeah, it's been freakin' civilized.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:29 PM

Ernie:

To quote Dubya, "Uh?"

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:30 PM

~~~ Hail to the Fishgrease! What are your wishes m'lord? ~~~

Well... right now, I better wish for enough coffee to work on the FISHGREASE MANIFESTO site all night. Looks like it might actually start getting some traffic and it presently looks like something a bunch of 5th graders put together.

With Bush and company, that was really my target audience.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:30 PM

ithough it sucked

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:30 PM

I hope y'all are checking out Bill Moyers. Great show tonight.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:30 PM

Greasy, can't you download the show at Airamericaplaceforum.com?
Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:20 PM
============================================

That's:

http://www.AirAmericaPlace.com

We have "forums" but there's no "forum" in the URL.

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:30 PM

thanks jim, but fish gets the crown tonight. his nick was on lips of that fine jung woman. i'm a little jealous. we're all looking for a Warhol moment from JG.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:30 PM

Hey ernie, which hour was that? I tried tonight to show my husband the Rachel Corrie and Kings spam, but it was gone. Wasn't it third hour of yesterday, which we were using earlier today?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM

so really, sam is the muscle, who'da thunk it

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM

Moyers is one the few best things on TV left

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM

Ooh, sorry petemoon. Typin' too fast as the result of a giant infusion of caffeine.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM

Nuff crowns to go around!

FG u deserve an
ATTABOY!!!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 14, 2004 11:33 PM

But that woulda got him there, right?

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:33 PM

man she is fine to isn't she

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:33 PM

Anyone else notice how nice and clean this blog has been since Seder blocked that fool I riled up this afternoon about Rachael Corrie?
Ernie
================================================

There was that one guy in hour 3 named "Nick" but he wilted afer two or three posts.

Sad to say, I was a tad disapointed. I was poised to paste in:

"Why is it that the trolls come out in hour 3? Does Scarborough Country end at 10:00 or something?"

But then, Nick faded, and there was nobody to complain about.

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:33 PM

Hey ernie, which hour was that? I tried tonight to show my husband the Rachel Corrie and Kings spam, but it was gone. Wasn't it third hour of yesterday, which we were using earlier today?
Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM:::::

Samm deleted it!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 14, 2004 11:34 PM

C in S

Yes, very long, bout a thousand posts

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:35 PM

>Does Scarborough Country end at 10:00 or something?"<

Save it for Monday, Pete, it's worth it....

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:35 PM

bush will kill all our enemies i love bush and all our troops jg is a joke

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:36 PM

Thanks Jim... like I said, attaboys are most powerful gestures available to human kind. And coming from another old fisherman, its doubly satisfying.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:36 PM

So... This grad program is going to kick my ass. It's going to kick it, and then lop it off, grind it into assburger, and try to serve it to me. I'll be a vegetarian, forced by grad school to eat his own ass.

*whimper*

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 14, 2004 11:37 PM

"Why is it that the trolls come out in hour 3? Does Scarborough Country end at 10:00 or something?"

I've noticed that too. Perhaps that's when Free Republic hands out the orders, slaps their spacemonkies on the head and sends them out to wreak havok on the internet?

Posted by: Harrumph at May 14, 2004 11:37 PM

JG will kill all our enemies i love JG and all our troops BUSH is a joke

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:38 PM

I remember how huge it was, but where is it now? I couldn't find it again when I looked. Could Sam have really deleted it?

Jimmie, do you remember? Weren't we on the third hour log of last night (today)?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:38 PM

bush will kill all our enemies i love bush and all our troops jg is a joke

Posted by at May 14, 2004 11:36 PM

The entire world is against us now
Bush will be pretty busy

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 14, 2004 11:38 PM

the woman talking on Moyers now should be booked on this show. i'll have to get her name. seen her before talking about the religious right and sep. of church and state

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:38 PM

It's Susan Jacoby

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:39 PM

good idea goody

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:39 PM

OMG!!!!!

My Palm Desktop just popped up a reminder to fly the flag tomorrow -- it's Armed Forces Day!

Okay, so, I don't need the pop-up because my stars and stripes have been flying every day for 14 months since I hoisted them alongside my rainbow-striped PEACE flag, but . . .

Did the mainstream media hype this holiday? I've been tuned to AAR all day, and didn't hear mention of it.

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:40 PM

Vioxel... that was wonderful!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:40 PM

spacemonkies are on our side dude, you mean assmonkies

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:40 PM

I don't know ... I think monkeys might just be workin for Bush:
http://www.bushorchimp.com/

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:42 PM

The BBC is reporting that the Supreme Court rejected attempts to stop same-sex marriage in Massachusetts. Now Janeane and I can marry! Just joking, I know she's yours Fishgrease.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3716615.stm

They're also predicting that the gay marriage issue could turn ugly for the president.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:42 PM

JG will kill all our enemies i love JG and all our troops BUSH is a joke

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:42 PM

Aww, {{{{{Vioxel}}}}}

Rough day?

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:43 PM

la la la la la liar

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:43 PM

>> Cath
Sam's got a pair and posted in few times re the Phungus dipshit. He told 'em flat out: knock off the trollin' or you'll be banned and I'll strip your posts. Well, the little bastard actually posted a biggie and POOF, gone like a trout at Perchlube's house at dinner. *snicker*
Sam's "tech stock" just went way up in my book - but the house tech coulda been frontin' w/ the Seder nic. Ahhh, peace, love and few hundred well-behaved, but snarky, liberals. Ooommmmmmmm,
Ooommmmmmmmm, Ooommmmmmmmmm --- nirvana.

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 14, 2004 11:43 PM

spacemonkies are on our side dude, you mean assmonkies
Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:40 PM
===============================================

Why am I getting images of Dub-yuh in thick green makeup, hoisting a broomstick and shrieking:

"Fly, my beauties! FLY!!!!!"

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:44 PM

Midterms, Vioxel? I just finished mine. Total sympathy. I had to drop off the earth for 5 days until last night.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:44 PM

Assburgers?

Assmonkies?

I'm lost.

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:45 PM

Freethinkers
A History of American Secularism

by Susan Jacoby

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:46 PM

**Lieberman: Why Rumsfeld Must Stay**

Warning that forcing the resignation of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld "would delight foreign and domestic opponents of America's presence in Iraq," Connecticut Democratic senator Joseph Lieberman said only solid proof that Rumsfeld has a hand in the abuse of Iraqi prisoners would justify his removal from the president's Cabinet.

Writing in today's Wall Street Journal, the recent candidate for his party's presidential nomination drew a clear line between himself and fellow Democrats calling for Rumsfeld's ouster.

"Many argue that we can only rectify the wrongs done in the Iraqi prisons if Donald Rumsfeld resigns," he wrote.

"I disagree. Unless there is clear evidence connecting him to the wrongdoing, it is neither sensible nor fair to force the resignation of the secretary of defense, who clearly retains the confidence of the commander in chief, in the midst of a war.

"I have yet to see such evidence. Secretary Rumsfeld's removal would delight foreign and domestic opponents of America's presence in Iraq."

In his op-ed column, "Let Us Have Faith - Why Rumsfeld Must Stay," Lieberman says he is appalled by the humiliating abuse of the detainees in Iraq.

He calls for a thorough investigation of the whole scandalous matter, insisting, "We cannot allow the prison scandal in Iraq to diminish our own American sense of national honor and purpose, or further erode support for our just and necessary cause in Iraq."

America, he wrote, must stay the course.

He recalled President Lincoln's words at another difficult moment in American history in pursuit of another just cause - The Civil War and the the abolition of slavery: "'Let us have faith ... and in that faith, do our duty as we understand it.' "

One more reason why Lieberman is known as "the conscience of the Senate."

Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:47 PM

writ large

After lurking daily on the blog since it started I finally got up the nerve to post. Late afternoon on thurseday's hour 3. Just a brief mention of Rachael Corrie. Didn't think anybody even knew about her. Hadn't seen her name mentioned here. Overwhelming response, one guy made numerous long nonsense posts.

Seder posted, saying he was blocking his IP (smoke and mirrors magic to me). Since then no more long meaningless posts, almost all of those right fringe nicknames disappeared.

Maybe the poster who was saying they were all one person was right.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:47 PM

Susan is a bit of an atheist elitist ...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:47 PM

I was trying to figure out the other day what nick Sam was posting under. Is Great American Patriot him?

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:47 PM

so they did delete the garbage. I waasn't losing my mind. Good.

How many of Phungus' other personalities left with him? Who was he besides Phungus?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:48 PM

The neocons constantly demonize the word 'secular' and by extension 'secularists'. Just like the word 'liberal'.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:48 PM

Night all!
May I leave King Fishgrease?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 14, 2004 11:48 PM

no, I think sam has a big old hairy pair o testi, I told him tonight that it was his job was to go pit on these maggoty dirtbags that bash JG, but I think he beat me to it

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:48 PM

Thanks, Fishgrease. It's true, though. I have no idea what I was thinking in applying. I can't imagine why in the world they accepted me. Ugh... I'm a hardware tech. I pull apart PCs and servers, and put them back together. Sometimes I custom-build a few for folks.

This does not qualify me to take new tech (patents still wet) and create markets for them in a global business environment. Some of the stuff I'm working with will require NDAs, just so I can see the details.

Ass is still attached, but today was the first day. I expect to see an assburger with cheese sometime in the next week.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 14, 2004 11:49 PM

One more reason why Lieberman is known as "the conscience of the Senate."
Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:47 PM
==========================================

Well. Speak of the devil.

Or . . . was that . . . the assmonkey?

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:50 PM

Bet he is trying to find the show! lol
night it was a good blog tonight

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 14, 2004 11:50 PM

Hey Pointman (nee petemoon)

Fly that flag upside down like I do on holidays (international sign of distress). I've had dozens of conversations with people who stopped to tell me, and I give 'em this: On the morning of Nov. 3rd, 2004 when Dubya is the lame duck and Kerry is the president-elect, THEN I'll fly it right-side up. It pisses off all the locals who drive by who are mostly repuke/cons on Long Island. It's fun watchin' 'em nearly having an anyurism (sp?).

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 14, 2004 11:50 PM

Why am I getting images of Dub-yuh in thick green makeup, hoisting a broomstick and shrieking:

"Fly, my beauties! FLY!!!!!"

I was thinking more along the lines of Limbaugh and the like drumming into the repug sheep that they aren't beautiful and unique snowflakes and cultivating the hive mind ala Fight Club, but that works too. ;-)

Posted by: Harrumph at May 14, 2004 11:50 PM

alright, so who's our new phungus?

I thought Sam was G A P also, but sometimes he posts as Sam, sometimes as seder. Like today I think it was seder, wasn't it?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:51 PM

GAP is a liar. That is all I know about him.

Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:51 PM

Aww, {{{{{Vioxel}}}}}

Rough day?

Posted by petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:43 PM
------

Thanks for the hug, I need it. As for your question... yes. That's a definate yes.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 14, 2004 11:51 PM

Writ Large response to Ernie:

"Uh?"

You must have me confused with someone who is computer literate.

Posted by: writ large at May 14, 2004 11:51 PM

Right. During the show he posted as SEDER

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:52 PM

Midterms, Vioxel? I just finished mine. Total sympathy. I had to drop off the earth for 5 days until last night.

Posted by cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:44 PM
-------

Just started, first day. I haven't even been to all of my classes yet.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 14, 2004 11:52 PM

petemoon

He used the nick:

Seder

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 14, 2004 11:53 PM

//
so they did delete the garbage. I waasn't losing my mind. Good.

How many of Phungus' other personalities left with him? Who was he besides Phungus?
Posted by cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:48 PM
//

How many times do I have to tell you people that I am just me? It's no wonder you are a liberal. You can't even read or think straight. Are you a product of a dumbed down public education or did your parents waste their money on something more?

Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:53 PM

And when I saw the SEDER posts with urls I figured he was trying to show us what he was about to talk about. It was that Presidential Prayer Kids site. It's a great idea and gets us on point with him immediately.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 14, 2004 11:53 PM

//
so they did delete the garbage. I waasn't losing my mind. Good.

How many of Phungus' other personalities left with him? Who was he besides Phungus?
Posted by cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:48 PM
//

Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:54 PM

Hey Hey! for the Monkees!

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:55 PM

>Just started, first day. I haven't even been to all of my classes yet.<

Sounds like those nightmares I have. Show up just before midterms but never having gone to class. And naked. And I can't find my locker.

One of those days?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:55 PM

Seems like masturbation was a motif today with Al as well

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:55 PM

Pointman, indeed!

You crack me up, L-A-L!!!

I'll have to try negotiating that upside-down flag thing with my partner (faithful for 23 years so far, so you can wipe that sweat off your brow).

We both have to live here, so we each have veto power over "yard displays."

Posted by: petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:56 PM

//
Well. Speak of the devil.

Or . . . was that . . . the assmonkey?
Posted by petemoon at May 14, 2004 11:50 PM
//

Did you even read the article or just jump right on into the name calling? Guess that shows us you're not here to learn anything new.

Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:56 PM

...& people say we monkey around!

(oh, I'm so easily distracted by the beatles and the monkees...)

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:56 PM

I once took a final with my fly down ... is that the same thing?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 14, 2004 11:56 PM

Vioxel,

Huge market right now for resonably priced, weather hardened motion detectors and the software to make them work within a protected site system. The hardware technology is simple and available, but there's a huge need for some adaptive software.

If you know anybody interested, givum my email, please (click my name).

This is instant $billion stuff just from the government contracts.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:58 PM

Sounds like those nightmares I have. Show up just before midterms but never having gone to class. And naked. And I can't find my locker.

One of those days?

Posted by cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:55 PM
----------

Yeah, something like that. Sigh.

I guess I have homework to do. Thanks for the sympathy, cathy and everyone.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 14, 2004 11:59 PM

assmonkey's back. we need to take a dump somewhere. there was a shortage of crappers tonight. take a crap and feed the troll (just a little)

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 14, 2004 11:59 PM

Yes, Nik, it is.....

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:59 PM

JG will kill all our enemies i love JG and all our troops BUSH is a joke

Posted by: terry wilke at May 14, 2004 11:59 PM

Cathy in Seattle:

Now I know what to get you for Christmas.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:00 AM

Vioxel,

If you know anybody interested, givum my email, please (click my name).

This is instant $billion stuff just from the government contracts.

Posted by Fishgrease at May 14, 2004 11:58 PM
-----------

I'll pass it on to the incubator. I know they're working on intrusion detection of some kind, among other things.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 12:00 AM

you talking adaptive processing with stochastic adaptive filters there?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:00 AM

Good for you, Vioxel, you show a lot of resolve! Good luck and let us know how you do,

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:00 AM

cathy you too

Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 12:01 AM

>Now I know what to get you for Christmas.<

beatles and monkeys? Or directions to my school locker?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:02 AM

>>> We both have to live here, so we each have veto power over "yard displays."

p.s. For example, I purchased the rainbow-striped PEACE flag. By itself, it was vetoed. But, we reached an agreement that it could be displayed as long as it was side-by-side with the stars & stripes.

p.p.s. Note for ass-monkey-fungi: This is how civilized, mature humans behave -- they discuss their differences openly and arrive at solutions that are agreeable.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:02 AM

Beatles and Monkees.

I have all of the sweaty socks I need.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:04 AM

samf*ckingtastic

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:05 AM

I'd like to hear Yoko on MR. Give piece a chance. No un-fun pun intended.

I miss John & Yoko. I miss the hope & love.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 15, 2004 12:05 AM

I remember how huge it was, but where is it now? I couldn't find it again when I looked. Could Sam have really deleted it?

Jimmie, do you remember? Weren't we on the third hour log of last night (today)?
Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 14, 2004 11:38 PM""""""""""""

************************************

CS look in yesterdays aftershow blog
THAT WHERE IT IS BETCHA

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:05 AM

hate to leave y'all, but i'm asleep at the wheel

Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 12:06 AM

Janeane against the Machine

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:06 AM

How sick is Michael Berg that he is using his son's horrific death to shill on a soapbox for socialist frontgroup International ANSWER?

^
Also Thursday, Michael Berg said he has been a member of International ANSWER - Act Now to Stop War & End Racism - for the past year and has participated in several anti-occupation marches. He said he planned to march on the Pentagon with the group, which is calling for Bush to bring the troops home now, on June 5.
^

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:06 AM

How sick is Michael Berg that he is using his son's horrific death to shill on a soapbox for socialist frontgroup International ANSWER?

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:07 AM

petemoon, I'm all for fighting the Clear-Channel-Evil-Empire, but as Arianna Huffington said "When the house is on fire, you can't worry about remodeling."
We need a little support here getting the Majority Report's 3rd hour on XM first, before we can take financial "lumps." Words are easier to produce than ripping a radio out of your dash and replacing it with something new.
We can take on a empire after the fire is out.
Thanks

Posted by: XMowner at May 15, 2004 12:07 AM

hey gunpush,

i always enjoy your posts. they snap my eyes wide open and that's the truth. I don't happen to agree with you 90% of the time, but there is that 10%...

good job

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:08 AM

"I remember how huge it was, but where is it now?"

Coincidentally, that is a quote from a former girlfriend.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:08 AM

Did you even read the article or just jump right on into the name calling? Guess that shows us you're not here to learn anything new.
Posted by: phungus at May 14, 2004 11:56 PM
=============================================

As a matter of fact I did read the article.

Senator Lieberman clarifying what, in his opinion, would justify Rumsfled's removal -- ignoring the subtext of the difference between what is justifiable, and what is honorable. A concept with which Mr. Rumsfeld has proven himself to be unfamiliar.

Your post expresses your commitment to participation in this blog as a learning experience. Please let us know what you've learned through interacting with us.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:08 AM

difinitely samtastic!, good night all... oh hell, one more lil bit o bait before i go.

JG will kill all our enemies i love JG and all our troops BUSH is a joke

Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 12:09 AM

Adios TW

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:10 AM

This comment is directed to David Richey

In the last hour he wrote some very thoughtful and well reasoned piece about how Sam should be less snarky with Guests and that his style is not the way to win people over and get them in our Tent.
It was very well written, but I believe dead wrong.

Sam's interaction with the Newsweek editor MADE GOOD RADIO. It is something you WANT to listen it. You are waiting for something to happen. There was tension in the air, almost a cliff hanger feeling. That is Sam's style with some guests, and it will work for some guests.

It is refreshing to hear because so often the press does the same self censorship that you were suggesting Sam do. Yes, Sam’s interview style will turn off some people, it won't bring them to our side, it might not make them want to come on the show again.
However, while being polite all the time might give you more guests, it won't give you the excitement of that interview. People crave tough interviews with the press and politicians, but it is hard to do. If the interview is pushed too hard then people will shut down and go into spin. One style of great interviewers is Terry Gross, who can get people to talk about stuff because they feel comfortable. With guests she doesn't like she usually gives them enough time to embarrass themselves on air (See Bill O’Reilly). But that is her style. Sam uses that style with some guests. He is intellectually curious, and his desire to know more and share information with his listeners really comes across.

In reality, most guests won't get into a shouting match with Sam, but it was really exciting to listen to the Steven Levy interview.

I found Sam's method to break down the whole CONCEPT of Conventional Wisdom by using a grammatical device very clever. It forced the WRITER, who cares about words, to not just repeat his pat answer about who actually develops the "Conventional Wisdom". When he was pressed some more you found out that THREE GUYS create it. (WE LEARNED SOMETHING NEW, based on this interview!)
They might develop it based on talking to people but we don't know who these people are and what their affiliations are. Additionally, we don't know how many people they talk to for each idea. Finally, we don't know if it is based on reading certain pundits, watching certain TV shows or listening to certain radio stations.

Newsweek's Conventional Wisdom has a bias. The question is what kind of bias does it have? All we know now, (which we didn't know before) is that it is based on the conversations of three guys who compose the feature.

What Sam was on the road to proving is that you need to look at the assumptions of the people behind the media. Opinions and attitude matter when it comes to the important job of providing some balance to a very powerful and manipulative press. As tiny as it seems, Sam is chipping away at ignorance and lockstep thinking in the mainstream media.

Posted by: spocko at May 15, 2004 12:11 AM

I got my midterms back already so I don't have to suffer. I did better than I had any right to. I owe it all to the "High John The Conquerer Root" a friend brought back from New Orleans last Sunday. I wore it in my shirt. I got an "A" on both my Anthropology and Math midterms. Thank you High John the Conquerer Root.

I haven't been into my locker since the winter break. Come to think of it, I don't even want to find my locker anymore. I might have left a lunch bag in it.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:11 AM

g'night Writ.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:12 AM

Opportunistically using your son's death is almost as bad as using 3000 dead people you never knew or cared about

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:12 AM

. . . socialist frontgroup International ANSWER?
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:07 AM
==========================================

You appear to be equating anti-war activism with Socialism. Please explain. I'm willing to learn.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:13 AM

>CS look in yesterdays aftershow blog
THAT WHERE IT IS BETCHA<

oooo I was looking at the 3rd hour. I'll try after show blog. Thanks Jimmie,

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:13 AM

Good points, spocko

If I want eye-wateringly dull, but still intellectually interesting conversation, I'll tune into NPR.

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:13 AM

I agree with Mr.Spock's (rather longwinded) assesment ... Sam is doin good work!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:15 AM

>> eh canucker

Scanned the thread twice - who's gunpush?

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 15, 2004 12:15 AM

How many times do I have to tell you people that I am just me? """"

i keep tellin em that myself!
good luck an hiyaa!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:16 AM

Nik, I was about to say that, too. You said it better and your fingers are faster than mine.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:16 AM

Well, so long bloggers...

it's a beautiful night in the North and I'm off to take advantage of it. You'd think a guy'd get tired of being around hundreds of beautiful, young, laughing, dancing girls, but I guess I'm just crazy!

I'll just put my brain up on this shelf...

There we go! Blissfully stupid for the next few hours!

Night all...

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:17 AM

Cathy - Check it out. You may know this tune. The Johnnie Concheroo is John the Conqueror Root

Muddy Waters
(I'm Your) Hoochie Coochie Man

The gypsy woman told my mother
Before I was born
I got a boy child's comin'
He's gonna be a son of a gun
He gonna make pretty women's
Jump and shout
Then the world wanna know
What this all about
But you know I'm him
Everybody knows I'm him
Well you know I'm the hoochie coochie man
Everybody knows I'm him

I got a black cat bone
I got a mojo too
I got the Johnny Concheroo
I'm gonna mess with you
I'm gonna make you girls
Lead me by my hand
Then the world will know
The hoochie coochie man
But you know I'm him
Everybody knows I'm him
Oh you know I'm the hoochie coochie man
Everybody knows I'm him

On the seventh hours
On the seventh day
On the seventh month
The seven doctors say
He was born for good luck
And that you'll see
I got seven hundred dollars
Don't you mess with me
But you know I'm him
Everybody knows I'm him
Well you know I'm the hoochie coochie man
Everybody knows I'm him

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 12:18 AM

"When the house is on fire, you can't worry about remodeling."
Posted by: XMowner at May 15, 2004 12:07 AM
===========================================

Nice try, but, can you explain to me how lobbying XM to alter their programming schedule is more akin to putting out a fire than it is to remodeling?

And, conversely, how taking a dramatic step like destroying an expensive piece of equipment is more akin to remodeling than it is to putting out a fire?

If not, I'm afraid you've succeded in very effectively arguing my point for me.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:18 AM

gunpush is a pun for phungus ... you see it kinda sounds similar and he's a right winger (therefore presumably pro gun)

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:19 AM

Besides, if Mr Berg had instead shilled for Bush's side ("Oh my son LOVED this president and this war and would have been SO PROUD to die for his country for freedom and democracy.....etc) The the Wing-nuts would have creamed themselves over the oportunity to play and replay it on Fox..

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:19 AM

g-u-n-p-u-s-h

p-h-u-n-g-u-s

silly, I know...

But I do agree with some of his thoughts after I filter them and reword them into something resembling a human viewpoint! But you have tyo admit he brings up uncomfortable points...

;-)

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:19 AM

good night canadian!

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:20 AM

Good Night Seattle!

"oh baby i hear the blues a callin'.."

Posted by: canadian at May 15, 2004 12:21 AM

gee canadian ... i didn't notice you used the same letters ... you are a genius!!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:21 AM

Goody!!!!

Thanks, I may even have it!!

Too Good!

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:22 AM

d'oh -- I was never any good at those anagram thingies or word jumbles - damn Stoli.

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 15, 2004 12:22 AM

nite canucker!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:22 AM

Candian

Thank you.
P.S. I LOVE Canada.

Nik E Poo

I save the "Great work Sam!" for when the show is on. Yes, it's a bit long, but I felt it necessary to respond with the same thoughtfulness that David Richey had with his post.

My new favorite word. SAMTASTIC!

Posted by: spocko at May 15, 2004 12:22 AM

My pleasure.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 12:22 AM

//
>>> We both have to live here, so we each have veto power over "yard displays."

p.p.s. Note for ass-monkey-fungi: This is how civilized, mature humans behave -- they discuss their differences openly and arrive at solutions that are agreeable.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:02 AM
//

And civilized mature humans also fling cursing insults? I see. Why am I not surpised someone talking about their "partner" can't wait to talk about my ass?

p.s., sounds to me like a balless household. At least you don't live in a HOA community and can fly a flag.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:22 AM

Scramble Phungus again, and you get Gushpun.

Maybe it's Groucho Marx?

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:23 AM

this is my first post thurs. post show post:
[Rachael Corrie

House bill stalls calling for probe of Corrie's death.

http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20040316/southsound/4906.shtml

discuss amongst yourself

Ernie
Posted by at May 14, 2004 02:34 PM ]

so it is after that.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:23 AM

Isn't it just like politicians to cheer when events (no matter how horrible) make them look good (or their opponents look bad). Maybe I'm naive, but I suspect normal people have the ability to suspend partisanship long enough for a moment of honest sadness.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:27 AM

Rachel Corrie is from around here, it got a lot of press.

Ernie, what does PLD mean? Peace Love and .....?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 12:27 AM

Remember me, Phungus. The wimpy dude with the bowtie who has all the logon files, aliases & URL's. Knock it off or I'll do you faster than a Pointman's sniper shot. Be good little boy or be gone. Last warning!

Posted by: Seder at May 15, 2004 12:29 AM

When normal people are being politicians, they are not as politicians being normal people.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:29 AM

whoooosh! that went over my head.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:32 AM

Dope or Dove,

Whichever makes you comfortable.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:33 AM

Spocko:

Thanks for your comments.

Agree to a certain extent with your point, but more in theory than in practice. You *can* be snarky at times, I will readily agree, but you just have to be much more witty and charming to get away with it (e.g. Bill Maher, John Stewart). If you can't pull it off on that level, especially when you bring an aggrieved and petulant and accusatory tone to the exchange, then Sam's preenful peacocking just makes him look petty and small and insignificant. If Sam wants to be challenging, he needs to dial back his emotions and think ahead more. Allows the charm and the sarcasm to work for rather than against him.

Gonna hit the rack. Don't mean to offend you or them; just want them to do their best. Don't think they give effective interviews with people whose positions they disagree with at present, and it doesn't help (I don't believe) to always blow sunshine up their arses like some do (as a general rule: not you, of course, so don't get me wrong).

You can email direct if you want me to respond further. Thanks again.

Posted by: David Richey at May 15, 2004 12:34 AM

Our Fearless Leader speaks. Or is it a spoofer? How would we know? Seems real enough. Impossible to tell. Best to listen to him.

Thanks Sam. Please look into having Susan Jacoby on the show. I posted this earlier in the post blog. She's done a couple of great interviews that I saw recently - One with Bill Moyers tonight, and one on Nightline a couple weeks ago, among others. Google her and check out what she's about. Perfect here.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 12:34 AM

>>> And civilized mature humans also fling cursing insults?

Only when richly deserved.

>>> Why am I not surpised someone talking about their "partner" can't wait to talk about my ass?

Surprise requires an IQ at least in double digits.

>>> Sounds to me like a balless household.

Nope. More balls than you can shake a stick (or two) at.

>>> At least you don't live in a HOA community and can fly a flag.

But I do. In fact, my partner is the President of the HOA. Actually, the guy at the end of the cul-de-sac got more votes and according to the HOA bylaws should rightfully have assumed the office, but, we took him to court and had my partner appointed.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:36 AM

We live in desperate times ... plenty of courage out there ... Rachel Corrie must have believed:

If a man has not found something he's willing to die for, than he is not fit to live.

- Martin Luther King jr

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:38 AM

you were lookin for that reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly LONGPOST? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM May 14, 2004 01:10 PM

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:39 AM

Did anyone tune in for the Franken/Coulter debate?? Wasn't that tonight?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:40 AM

Maybe you can help.

Mikhal wanted references to lack of tunnels under the house. I only found one on the net today, not as good as the one I can't remember from a year ago.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:40 AM

Did anyone tune in for the Franken/Coulter debate?? Wasn't that tonight?
Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:40 AM
=============================================

It was tonight, but there was no tuning in available. Al said on the OFF blog that, if at all possible, he'd make a recording available.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:42 AM

Nik E Poo,

Not certain if you are being facetious or not?

If not; normal people, including politicians when they are in their ordinary at-home guise, are no different than anyone.

When they doff their tails and cane, they pontificate in a maddeningly obtuse manner, designed to offend no one and wow everyone.

In short, they lie, except when garbed only in their shorts.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:43 AM

Nik - Could we actually tune in somewhere to hear this? Shit. Missed it if it was on. Damn.

I thought it was just broadcast into an auditorium in Connecticut nearby so the overflow crowd could pay more money to hear and see it on a local video feed. Is it somewhere for rebroadcast? Hope so...

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 12:43 AM

thanks ... just curious... looking forward to it

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:44 AM

OOH - Hope Al can replay the whole thing!

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 12:44 AM

//
As a matter of fact I did read the article.

Your post expresses your commitment to participation in this blog as a learning experience. Please let us know what you've learned through interacting with us.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:08 AM
//

I try to gather as much news from as many sources as I can on all spectrums to arrive at my own world view. This is one of them. That is as close to the truth as you can get. Anything less is further removed from the truth. Someone who imbibes NPR/AAR/NYT 24x7 is no different from a Dittohead/FNC/WashTimes addict. The truth is in between. What alot of people have not figured out is that reporters are not reporters anymore, if they ever were. Their own biases (sometimes rabid) affect everything they "report". A liberal upper crust New Englander often times just can't get a guy down in Texas, and vice versa.

What have I learned the last two weeks (besides noticing your nick for the first time just today, don't konw if you are new or I just never noticed)? I've learned that many people here are just as whacked out as insane rabid Freepers (or insert any other conservative site) with no real interest in learning anything, especially from anyone they don't agree with. 'lo Jim. I've learned that alot of people are under the delusion that there could only possibly be one person that was here and didn't agree with everything said. That is just nutty.

Many people like to flamewar, but that is best left to Usenet, or something better than a blog format :)

In the end most people are probably pretty well set in their world views, ship jumping is rare. But there are always interesting points and facts that you can pick up on. The beauty of geared websites and blogs and the Internet is that it is possible to get raw unfiltered news and make your own opinion. Versus being force fed what other people consider news. It is just the truth that much of the mainstream media does lean left. If they don't report something or underreport it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Tho that is often the perception.

Good question, thank you.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:44 AM

"Death Row Exoneree Nick Yarris Knew Pa. Prison Guard in Iraqi Abuse"

"PHILADELPHIA - Nicholas Yarris, an exonerated Pennsylvania Death Row prisoner at SCI-Greene who was released January 16, 2004, says that he had numerous encounters with Charles A. Graner, Jr., a current employee of the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections who is pictured in photos of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq."

A super maximum-security prison ...... In November of 1997 ...... Amnesty International ... (was) ... "appalled at the inhumane treatment" of prisoners, calling conditions "debilitating and draconian."

......following numerous documented allegations of prisoner abuse. The investigation resulted in the transfer of the prison superintendent, the termination of two lieutenants, and disciplinary action against about two dozen guards.

According to Yarris, Graner was "violent, abusive, arrogant and mean-spirited"

http://www.phillyimc.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/11/1741249&mode=thread

Posted by: Dutch Masters at May 15, 2004 12:44 AM

//
As a matter of fact I did read the article.

Many people like to flamewar, but that is best left to Usenet, or something better than a blog format :)

Good question, thank you.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:45 AM

scared imitation
rickles time lost is brain lost
stroke me act quickly

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 12:45 AM

Oh where, oh where can my little fungii be/
Oh where, oh where can he be/
With his dork cut short, and his balls much to large/
Oh where, oh where can he be.

*the crowd erupts*
Thank you, thank you, calls out The Fearless Leader to his worshiping masses.

Posted by: Seder at May 15, 2004 12:46 AM

stoner drug addicts
yelling together again
my family collapse

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 12:47 AM

Not being facetious ... thanks for the explanation ... however, I totally disagree ... I don't believe you can act one way in one part of your life and differently in another part of your life ... duplicity is unstable ...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:47 AM

phone ambulance
real medicine bracelet
narraganset bay

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 12:48 AM

Obviously not Sam.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 12:49 AM

When they doff their tails and cane, they pontificate in a maddeningly obtuse manner, designed to offend no one and wow everyone.
In short, they lie, except when garbed only in their shorts.
Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:43 AM
========================================

Don
Pronunciation: dän
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, contraction of do on
1 : to put on (an article of clothing)
2 : to wrap oneself in

Doff
Pronunciation: däf
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from don to do off
1 a : to remove (an article of wear) from the body b : to take off (the hat) in greeting or as a sign of respect
2 : to rid oneself of : put aside

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:49 AM

The PSA's get tiresome but the one that's about only renting the white guy and giving him the name Graham Wellington is pretty funny,

Posted by: Moogy at May 15, 2004 12:50 AM

Aw, c'mon S.I.H. give us a Phungii limerick.
Pretty please

Posted by: Seder at May 15, 2004 12:50 AM

hmmm...

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 12:51 AM

Nik E Poo,

You don't believe that you CAN,

or you don't believe that you SHOULD?

If the former, I got some examples for you.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:51 AM

so good to see u
a long time away! Our life
contiues. Bright spots!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:52 AM

petemoon,
My futile attempt at gaining support by using a quote from a respected voice obviously lead to a point counter point that would ultimately be better reserved for the debate team and not for a Majority Report loving nerd such as myself. It appears that you know well of the XM empire (and Clear Channel) to reply with obvious fervor.
Bottom line: Hearing Alan Colmes cut off the Majority Report has me yelling at the radio, and cutting off David Cross tonight just made that vein in my forehead pulse even harder... the XM masses missing out are very large and from the new car commercials touting preinstalled XM radios leads me to think that there will be more and more angry listeners. When it can be financially viable, I'll gladly brandish the flaming Sirius sword with you (and be able to enjoy the rerun at night), but I'm asking you not to shoot down a cause that can help people right now.
If a mass of petemoon's were supporting this cause, there would be a line up change by tomorrow...

Posted by: XMowner at May 15, 2004 12:52 AM

phungus! That was a lucid, well thought out, polite and informative post. Thank you.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:52 AM

//
Opportunistically using your son's death is almost as bad as using 3000 dead people you never knew or cared about
Posted by Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:12 AM
//

Such a crass viewpoint.

Most of you probably missed this story.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/05/06/loc_moment06.html

Bush43 recently comforting a teen who lost a parent in the WTC. Go ahead and read/look. It's OK. Now look at the picture. That is real anguish and sorrow Bush is expressing, it drips from the JPEG. He cares. The thing is this. For something like this...I think Bush honestly believes and cares. Clinton could probably pull off faking it. Kerry could not come anywhere *near* faking it, not even with a bottle of Heinz 57 providing bloody crocodile tears.

And in any case. He most likely did know Olsen's wife.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:53 AM

Secret Identity Haiku,

Stick with five syllables in the final line.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:53 AM

stoner drug addicts
yelling together again
my family collapse"""

Personal?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:53 AM

I stand corrected. I have no excuses, unless you will accept that it is late, I'm tired, and the reference to 'shorts' had me doffing when I should have been donning.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 12:56 AM

Phungii,
Now that's making nice. You're still in Sam's penalty box, on probation, though.

All ur base belong to us.

Posted by: Seder at May 15, 2004 12:56 AM

I try to gather as much news from as many sources as I can on all spectrums to arrive at my own world view. This is one of them.
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:45 AM
============================================

Well, I gotta hand it to ya, phungus, that post is well-reasoned and insightful. It's a shame that all your prior posts have been agressively petulant wing-nut-parroting crap.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:57 AM

Hey...
I didn't know this place was so hoppin'!
This is great! Did I miss a lot?

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 12:59 AM

I don't think duplicity is stable ... if you lack integrity, it bleeds into your whole life ... it can't be contained

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 12:59 AM

XMowner,

I too am the proud owner of a new GM, XM-ready vehicle, so, I feel your pain. I just couldn't, in good concience, give them my money and, instead, bit the bullet and plopped down another couple hundred for Sirius.

Shoot me an email addy for XM and I'll be glad to send them a little note explaining to them that my business went to their competitor becuase of their truncation of Majority Report and Randi Rhodes.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:03 AM

atrocious fungus
apologist inhuman
your bush drips jpegs

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:03 AM

SO, I guess that would be a 'yes', i came to late to the party :(

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:03 AM

well seder sang us oh where or where has my little fungii gone...

nice to have another Catharine about!

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 01:05 AM

Catharine hiya! cruise upblog tell us what u think!!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:05 AM

Oh we're just gettin warmed up!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:05 AM

Yeah!

There are oddly a number of Catharine's, Kathryns, Cathy's on the blog.

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:06 AM

Catherine,

Never too late. Welcome.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:07 AM

No, No. S.I.H.
The haiku was excellent.
A limerick, s'il vous plait!

Posted by: Seder at May 15, 2004 01:07 AM

That is real anguish and sorrow Bush is expressing
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:53 AM
============================================

That does appear to be genuine anguish and sorrow.

Interesting that it comes after 20 months of smuggly smirking and 6 months before an election.

Are delayed emotions a typical symptom of the dry drunk?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:07 AM

Nik E Poo,

I will not argue with your assertion that duplicity (or duality, or two lives, or multiple personalities) is a tad weirder than maintaining one personality all day, ever day.

I will argue with your assertion (if you are claiming so) that it is not the case more often than not. Witness the "work personna" vs the "at home personna".

We all do it. Some of us do it more profitably than others.

I am not recommending it. I merely recognize it.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 01:07 AM

Cathy,

That wasn't the real seder, methinks...

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:08 AM

Never thought I'd be typing the word 'methinks' anywhere in this lifetime...

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:08 AM

//
. socialist frontgroup International ANSWER?
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 12:07 AM
==========================================

You appear to be equating anti-war activism with Socialism. Please explain. I'm willing to learn.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:13 AM
//

Sure. It's nice to find another person here simply looking for new and different ideas. Like I said, I welcome doing so myself instead of having to listen to idiots saying 500 times that I am 10 people and blah blah blah.

Not all cases of anti-war activism, just this one.

It is 100% fact that International ANSWER is a front group for the Workers World Party, headed by Ramsey Clark. A former US Attorney General under LBJ who turned into a rabid nutjob. WWP is an offshot of the Socialist Workers Party from the 1950s.

A quick Google on the two groups will yield alot. I won't bother posting links to conservative sites that talk about it (because most people here would dismiss them). But now and then the truth does filter though to more "established" outfits. Like The Washington Post. It's something to think about the next time you see one of their signs on a phone pole (you may not, I do all the time). They don't really care about Iraq per se. Their goal is using any hotbutton issue as a way to further their own agenda.

Unfortunately, most people who march in the name of this group are not aware of the deception. Good people lining up behind a bad group. It pays to research things...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A25043-2003Jan21?language=printer
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/50/news-corn.php

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:09 AM

methinks m'lady doth methinks too much! :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:09 AM

Hey Sunshine!

I did cruise it a bit... I saw Seder's 'song' about he who shall be nameless (and useless).

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:10 AM

verily i am no lady

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:10 AM

Read this, left-wing Bedwetters; it might just knock you concious...
A Liberal's Sad Resignation

A sad resignation. That’s what I am feeling right now.

I’m a Liberal. A registered Democrat since I was 18 years old. I deeply believe in much of the Liberal ideal and have practiced it, daily, in my life. I have worked for Democratic causes and a Democratic President. I have been invited to the White House and have shaken hands, and worked shoulder to shoulder, with some of the most influential people in this country. I spent seven years working for a not-for-profit charity—seven very rewarding years. I have gotten behind my own personal causes and I have taken on some powerful people – and won. I am a willful person and I have the knack of accomplishing what I set out to do. I conquered a screwed up childhood. I recovered from drug and alcohol addiction. I set a goal for myself and, despite all odds, I am in the process of achieving it. I AM living my dream. This is not bragging – this is who I am. And I need to establish that before I go on.

And, today, for the first time in my conscious adulthood, I am considering forsaking the heart and soul of all I believe in and all I’ve worked for. And I hate it! I hate being in this position – the position of questioning just about everything I accept as true. I hate thinking and feeling, yes, feeling, what I can only describe as being trapped in an idealistic and moral quagmire.

I viewed that horrendous video today, to a point. I had to stop. I knew what was about to happen and I could not bring my eyes to view the act. I saw the stills; the ones with severed head being held high. At that moment all reason, and all my idealism, left.

At first I wasn’t sure what was going through my heart and mind. Anger? Sure. Rage. Some. Shock? Definitely. Utter disbelief? There was an abundance of that. What, after some deep searching and talking with my wife, I found I was feeling the most was a deep, deep sorrow – and a resounding hollowness. Not for the victim, per se. Don’t get me wrong – his death was horrible and tragic. No. The sadness was something else and something deeper. It was, in actuality, a mourning. Mourning for having to relinquish what I have held so deeply and so dear to the practicalities of a vicious and murderous world.

I don’t like George W. Bush. I don’t trust him and those around him. I don’t like his policies and I don’t like the way he and his people play ‘politics’. His is an administration of extremists. But I’m pretty damned pissed at my own party too! They are so disconnected from their constituency that half the time I don’t know what their message is – and neither do they. We have regressed to two parties of extremes leaving those of us in the middle, well, searching: searching but finding nothing. I wished, I prayed, that the Democratic Party would have put up a viable, reasonable, firm candidate. But they did not. Nope, they sure didn’t. So, now I am faced with a terrible choice.

We ARE at war. I have given the enemy, and those that harbor the enemy, every opportunity to prove the Hawks and the war-mongers wrong and that those of Islam are not at fault. And, for the most part, I still do not believe that ALL of Islam is evil. But this act, this final act of utter contempt for humanity, all humanity, is just too much for me to bear. I call for those of Islam to speak out. Some do. But most don’t. Why? I don’t know. It could be fear of retribution. It could be fear of being noticed. It could just be the silence of complicity – an idea that I deplore, but can’t discount, any longer. One thing is for sure, I just can’t take it anymore; the disappointment. The frustration. The anger. The grey.

It IS time for drastic measures. It is time to do whatever is necessary. It is time to put away partisan ideals and stop pointing fingers, on all sides. It is time to take the enemy down – finally and ultimately. This is war. People are going to die. And, I am saddened to say, better them – than me and mine. If they don’t care about their own people then why should I? And until those people start caring about themselves they will continue to be exactly what they are now – the puppets of war and evil. We are in this all the way with no turning back. We didn’t start it, but we better damn well finish it. I so wish that there were another way out of this – a peaceful solution. But there is none; not with the enemy we have engaged. They know nothing of peace.

And that brings me to my last horrendous realization: I must vote for George W. Bush. God! I hate that idea. It leaves a vile taste in my mouth. But I see no other choice. The Democrats, in their present incarnation, are not capable of fighting this enemy. And, hopefully, he is. Now, I will continue to criticize. I will continue to speak out. I will not follow anyone blindly. Also, I will not campaign for him. I will not donate to his party. He gets my vote and that will have to be enough. This is MY decision. Mine alone. Respect that and leave me alone with it. I don’t like the man. But I don’t have to; IF he does the job he’s promised to do. And if he doesn’t he will have hell to pay because I, and many others, are giving up a hell of a lot to give him that chance.

There, I’ve said it. It is out to the universe and may the universe forgive me. In the end, though, it only fills me with more tragic resignation.

Posted by: NRAStud at May 15, 2004 01:10 AM

Methinks thou art a fulsome and buxom
lass, thy breath as sweet as a zephyr!
Thy thoughts as sweet as water in the dessert!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:11 AM

no, I know, Goody--It was the fungii sing that blew it.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 01:12 AM

Good night Canadian. Where in Canada? I was in N.S. last year for a week plus...

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:12 AM

A foul fungus grew on a fence post
Rot at the core and weak as milquetoast
Spore, who dropped 'ya? Black helicopter?
Go take a nap, your lies are toast

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:12 AM

The preceding post was courtesy of Mr. Sane, a recovering liberal who visits rightnation.com and provides well-mannered opposition commentary.

Posted by: NRAStud at May 15, 2004 01:13 AM

My point is more about the nature of many politicians ... the ability to harden oneself from genuine emotions and view the world in partisan terms ... the difference between a doctor (for example) who can drop the clinical and methodical work day, politicians deal with lifestyle itself. A politician can't leave work in the office because work deals with every facet of living life itself. Its too invasive. The conditioning cannot be conveniently "dropped at the door".

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:13 AM

I was admittedly hopeful, then sadly fooled by my own hope of a visit from a superior being.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:14 AM

My deepest thanks petemoon, the blogosphere is a better place because of eloquent and level headed individuals such as yourself.

Kevin Straley
Vice President
Talk Programming
XM Satellite Radio
kevin.straley@xmradio.com

If you need any assistance with a cause of yours, just put it on the blog and I will be ready and willing to help.

Thanks again

Posted by: XMowner at May 15, 2004 01:15 AM

phunnygas was some of the troll assmonkeys but not all of the troll assmonkeys

If phunnygas impersonates you and/or calls you a liar then You/We Are Speaking Truth that deeply hurts the brainwashed parroting phungus.

The dummy says that all the great thinking insightfully wriitten true stories I post up from mostly mainstream publications are lies.

None so blind as those that do not see...

The Truth

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 01:16 AM

Proof of 'Mr. Sane' being a real person? And if real, a real ex-lefty. And if real, WHO CARES? He's a lost soul. ...ya lose some...

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:16 AM

http://www.eatthestate.org/08-13/FocusOnCorporation.htm

Focus On The Corporation

by Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

Corporation as Psychopath

People ask: Rob, Russell, the world is going to hell in a handbasket. What can we do about it?

We say: Read one book, see one movie.

Unfortunately, the movie and the book are available now only in Canada.

But wait--before you head north of the border--they will be available here in a month or so.

And believe us, it is worth the wait. (Full disclosure--our work, the Top 100 Corporate Criminals of the 1990s--is featured in the movie.)

The book is titled The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power. It is by Joel Bakan (Free Press, 2004).

The movie is called The Corporation. It is by Mark Achbar, Jennifer Abbott, and Joel Bakan.

We've seen an advance copy of the movie.

We're read an advance copy of the book.

And here's our review:

Scrap the civics curricula in your schools, if they exist.

Cancel your cable TV subscriptions.

Call your friends, your enemies and your family.

Get your hands on a copy of this movie and a copy of this book.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:16 AM

//
Remember me, Phungus. The wimpy dude with the bowtie who has all the logon files, aliases & URL's. Knock it off or I'll do you faster than a Pointman's sniper shot. Be good little boy or be gone. Last warning!
Posted by Seder at May 15, 2004 12:29 AM
//

And I thought liberals were supposed to be nice? Whatever dude, whoever you are. Less talk, more action.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:16 AM

enervated lib
angry delusional stub
fooling nobody

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:16 AM

Unfortunately, most people who march in the name of this group are not aware of the deception. Good people lining up behind a bad group.
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:09 AM
============================================

I'm a bit too weary to research ANSWER's pedigree tonight, but I'll make a note to look into it.

In the meantime, and for the purpose of discussion, I'll concede that Clark/WWP is a bad actor.

So,

Millions of deceived people marching to express their desire to avoid war = a good result caused by a bad actor.

Invasion/Occupation of Iraq = a bad result caused by a bad actor.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:17 AM

still, good use of the word "methinks"-

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 01:17 AM

verily i am no lady
Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:10 AM
==========================================

Pronouns were never my strong suit. :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:18 AM

It's the ex-English major in me fighting to get out.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:18 AM

Regarding duplicity ... check out NRAStud ... QED

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:19 AM

A foul fungus grew on a fence post
Rot at the core and weak as milquetoast
Spore, who dropped 'ya? Black helicopter?
Go take a nap, your lies are toast

Posted by Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:12 AM

Bravo! Worth the browse for the poety/prose!

*Where have I heard that before?*

Posted by: Seder at May 15, 2004 01:20 AM

Seder - reveal your true self, knave

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:20 AM

thou naughty knave! which nick?!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:21 AM

//
>>> At least you don't live in a HOA community and can fly a flag.

Sounds to me like you need to go and learn what the Electoral College is.

You've got a non-Nazi HOA if you can fly flags and such. Most HOAs I have seen are just pure evil. Of course, talking bout HOAs opens up another can of political worms :)

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:21 AM

Damn armor's makin' me itchy

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:22 AM

Good to know Sunshine ... where will be able to see the movie?

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:22 AM

I bet you can downlad it on kazaa or suprnova

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:23 AM

not that i advocate such behavior

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:23 AM

phungus, Stop your double & triple posting Now

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 01:23 AM

Sorry everyone, my mother called about an hour ago and I've only been able to pay attention to tiny bits of the blog. She even heard me typing a few times.

Anyway, Ernie wrote:
CS
Maybe you can help.
Mikhal wanted references to lack of tunnels under the house. I only found one on the net today, not as good as the one I can't remember from a year ago.

....................................
If you have access to your county library, on line, they usually have an incredible amount of online media resources, like proqwest, ethnic news watch, NYTimes, Washington Newstand, etc, as well as magazine articles. I just took a class last quarter in Library research and was amazed at how much you can access with just a county library card.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 01:24 AM

HOAs foster baser tribal instincts and conformity over diversity and expression ... in other words ... they suck

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:24 AM

Phungus, here's a question for you:

Why are conservatives so scared of socialism?

Many of our programs and services here in the United States are built upon a socialist platform. The military, for instance, is an entirely socialist principle. Using our taxes to pay for road repairs to keep our byways safe is a socialist principle.

There are many examples of socialism in action in our society. That's one of the beautiful things about America - we CAN integrate many different systems and theories into the whole to work for the good of all the people, not just a few who happen to think one particular way.

But anyhoo, back to the question: why are conservatives so threatened by socialism? (And we can lump communism into the mix, because I have no doubt that most people confuse the two.)

Posted by: Harrumph at May 15, 2004 01:24 AM

Good to know Sunshine ... where will be able to see the movie?"""""

good question!

anybody?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:24 AM

It's the ex-English major in me fighting to get out.
Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:18 AM
==================================

Don't you mean "recovering English major?"

LOL

One of my brothers teaches English in Taiwan and I remind him as often as possible of that old saw:

"Those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach English!"

ROFL

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:24 AM

Nik E Poo,

God, I hate debating when I am emotionally in agreement with the other side. But putting emotion aside...

"Going to work" as a politician involves mechanics just as "going to work" as a surgeon does.

Yes, the subject matter is the furtherance of society but, no, it ain't the same as a family confab at the dinner table.

Even at its most ideal best, it still wouldn't be the same at home as it is in the Senate or House or wherever.

Deals are made. They give something up to gain something.

Witness the attachments placed on a bill. Attachments that have nothing to do with the core subject of the bill.

Will you vote against a good bill because you don't like the ammendment? Sometimes. Maybe not other times.

It isn't black and white. It sucks.

Add to this good ole boy network the fact that you have to get re-elected in order to win anything at all.

It is a weird world and it is duplicitous.

If you can figure out how to make it otherwise, let me know.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 01:25 AM

There was a troll who was not a fun guy
His posts were nonsense, based on a lie
Afraid to embrace, his own human race
He hid in a hole and watched his soul die

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:26 AM

Does Phungus realize he's talking to himself? Hours and hours of talking to himself. Nothing he ever says, under any pseudonym, is even remotely compelling, but given he never changes his tactic or style, he apparently thinks it is really moving or something. Poor reality testing. Just curious.

Odd. Very odd. and sad.

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:26 AM

I never thought of myself as 'recovering'. Just couldn't stand being in writing classes and having to critique my classmates' crap. And I MEAN crap.

Also I was neglecting my true love - music, which I was minoring in, so I just made it a major and live happily ever after.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:27 AM

I'm not talking about the mechanics, I'm talking about the manner in which reactions are systematically trained into a person. For a doctor, the sight of someone at home bleeding does not cause alarm. They see it in the context of the training. Similarly, when a politician experiences a tragety, they put it into the context in which they are familiar. You would not expect a profesional boxer to use the "windmill technique" just because they are not in the ring.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:30 AM

//
Well, I gotta hand it to ya, phungus, that post is well-reasoned and insightful. It's a shame that all your prior posts have been agressively petulant wing-nut-parroting crap.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 12:57 AM
//

Must be what happens when I am not drowning in lies about how I am a dozen people doing stupid crap like posting the Bible, which puts me on the defensive.

I wouldn't call posting information parroting but hey :) How is it different from someone else posting something I would consider parroting and toeing the other party line?

Have fun learning about the socialist front groups. Information like that is why I am here. To learn things that make me say "Why in the hell is this not front page news and why have I never heard this before?"

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:30 AM

I assumed I would choose an english major, or history, but was seduced by theology. Ironic, huh?

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 01:32 AM

Cathy:
Oh, if I were back in college again, I would sooo choose theology! Good for you.

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:33 AM

n E Poo

http://www.mediachannel.org/atissue/sample3/front.shtml

A Culture Of Violence

On July 21, 1999, an alliance of U.S. politicians, clergy members, academics, business leaders and citizen advocates launched a public campaign against media violence. Their "Appeal to Hollywood" charged: "American parents today are deeply worried about their children's exposure to an increasingly toxic popular culture." Endorsing an call to action that was ambiguous at best, the petition asserted that something was deeply amiss in the culture of Hollywood and attracted over 5,000 additional signatures. Around the world, coalitions continue to express concern about the frequency and degree of violence in the mass media, especially in children's media. But while some scholars see real danger in violent media messages, others are concerned that focusing attention on media violence obscures more important political, social and economic issues.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:34 AM

Cathy, you must've felt a spark and followed it. Many never get that chance, or are brave enough to take it.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:34 AM

I was always krappy at english ... but I have an excuse ... its my second language

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:34 AM

And I thought liberals were supposed to be nice? Whatever dude, whoever you are. Less talk, more action.

Mr. Phungus:
I've never had to justify a single one of my posts to anyone on this blog and I disagree with plenty of people (well, there was this one troll......). But as soon as you got spoofed by a "Seder" you've been downright decent about things. Just look at your posts after 12:29 and your fellow bloggers compliments that followed. Apologies to all; just a little experiment in reasoning with people who are being unreasonable.
I personally thought the "song" was over-the-top but I wanted to be, well, obvious.

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 15, 2004 01:35 AM

immorality
USA torture crusade
jesus MIA

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:35 AM

I assumed I would choose an english major, or history, but was seduced by theology. Ironic, huh?""""

Yeah theology

" Never met a religion i did'nt like"

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:35 AM

I promised Paul I would only stay on the blog til 8....that was 2 and a half hours ago. He's watching his movie by himself. I'll talk to you all in the morning, Jimmie, you remember what kind of coffee I like?

Night Jim, Pete, Goody, Catherine, Nik, Writ, Ernie, and all the other bloggers out there. My eyes are sleepy......

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 01:36 AM

You've got a non-Nazi HOA if you can fly flags and such.
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:21 AM
=============================================

Of course our HOA is open-minded (read liberal). After all, we're in charge (I'm the Secretary).

I'm still not sure how the two of us came to power. It's not like we're in some "gay ghetto." We're the only homos in a neighborhood of 22 houses. I guess our popularity comes from the fact that we're basically just good folks.

It's a terrific neighborhood. Everybody's equally committed to 1) being there for anybody who needs them, and 2) keeping their nose out of one another's business.

I can only imagine the horror of living under the "covenants" of an HOA where the people in power bore any shred of resemblance to any current prominent member of the GOP.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:36 AM

phunnygas you are less informed a 8 yr old kid.

Highly recommended book for your remedial reading is called "What Liberal Media"
just plug in the words in the amazon box kid

You really are a gullible sheep if you believe the extremist unamerican right wing lie that the media is liberal. What they are is Sensationalist and the bias that was found with them was that they are biased toward sensationalism & making money. thats it.

very biased exceptions are the extremist right wing ones that you love & cite such as faux news, ny post, all the right wing hate rags like newsmax, frontpagemag, worldnetdaily, freerepublic, etc

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 01:36 AM

iraq hangover
usama been forgotten
al quaeda headache

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:38 AM

Nighty-night, Cathy.

Hug Paul for me [wink].

p :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:39 AM

'Nite Cathy

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:40 AM

sunshine
not sure of the point.
- conditioning of children by media?
- seeping of violence from leaders into media?
- inability to live duplicitously by attempting to teach children non-violence?

please elaborate...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:41 AM

Nite Cath

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:42 AM

//
That does appear to be genuine anguish and sorrow.

Interesting that it comes after 20 months of smuggly smirking and 6 months before an election.

Are delayed emotions a typical symptom of the dry drunk?
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:07 AM
//

Bush gets a look about him sometimes. I think it's more trying to *not* make a look and then he ends up making a look. He sometimes looks smirky when on network camera. This picture was made by an individual, a more accurate representation. He was not mugging. Just feeling.

Don't get me started on 6 months before. John Kerry calling Micahel Berg?!?! Idiotic. It's only so he can a week from now point out how Bush did NOT call him. Politics. John Kerry is the oh so compassionite guy who calls the poor Secret Service guy forced to protect him a 'son of a bitch" for getting in his way on the ski slopes. Classy.

^Michael Berg also took a call yesterday from presumptive Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry.^

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/193331p-166984c.html

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM

Goodnight, Seattle!

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM

Forgive me. I'm confused.

Are you upset that, when a politico sees a bleeding societal wound, he responds calmly, as would a surgeon?

Or are you upset with the politico because he lacks emotion?

Before you answer, I don't believe that the people in office (generally) lack empathy. I believe that the legislative and elective system sucks. It doesn't work as well as it could. If it did, then the humanity within the politicos would come to the fore.

In short, if you were in the position of being able to give everyone everything, with no cost to yourself, wouldn't you?

Some are assholes with ideologic agendas. Other are merely representatives.

But all of them live two lives. You might enjoy reading anything from recent freshman legislators. They enter ready to make good. They soon learn that it ain't so easy.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM

Liberal-at-large, I had a feeling... ;-)

Isn't it funny how "tone" can change so many things? I hate how the tone has been set by our media, pitting "conservative" against "liberal". They've deliberately kept us at each other's throats and look at the result: there is no real discussion of the issues, just defensiveness. Nothing gets solved... there is no middle ground. Everything gets reduced to base generalizations and namecalling.

I wonder how much we could accomplish in this country by doing something to change the tone and open the lines of discussion.

Posted by: Harrumph at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM

Oops! forgot the word "than" in my stream of consciousness post

Hiya Sam! thanks for the posts, Sure looks like the very very few trolls that multiple themselves listened for now.

Hey there Jim! I guess you slept enough ;)
We'll be up late tonight again.

Got some good story links coming that are a Beacon Of Truth & Knowledge

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM

Patriot:

Great Book! by Eric Alterman

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM

Hope you saw the interview (if you can call it that) of Alterman by Dennis Miller. If you didn't, I think there's a link to it on the web you can find if I can't locate it.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:49 AM

Really? I can't imagine how that went. Of all people, Dennis Miller (part of the problem now).

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:51 AM

Michael Berg also took a call yesterday from presumptive Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry.
Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM
============================================

If you're looking for someone to take the affirmative in a debate on "John Kerry is not a consumate politician," then I'm not your man.

But I'll gladly take the affirmative on "Bush has done so much damage to this country in four years it's only reasonable to assume that if given another four, there'll be nothing left worth defending."

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:52 AM

phunnygas your post of your hate directed at the grieving father and fine human being Michael Berg is a True Look into your lack of feeling, heartlessness and cruelity.

You are really a traitor to america by condemning a man that has the courage of his convictions to be for peace and against war. You really don't know how evil your love of war is. Take a good look at yourself and you would pray for forgiveness for your sorry soul.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 01:52 AM

It didn't go well. Let me look for it for you.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:52 AM

Yeah, that's the point where I wrote off Miller for good. He was just an outright ass.

Okay, I guess I shouldn't stay up and wait for Phungus to answer my question about fear of socialism.

G'night all - have a safe weekend :)

Posted by: Harrumph at May 15, 2004 01:52 AM

//
I'm a bit too weary to research ANSWER's pedigree tonight, but I'll make a note to look into it.

In the meantime, and for the purpose of discussion, I'll concede that Clark/WWP is a bad actor.

So,

Millions of deceived people marching to express their desire to avoid war = a good result caused by a bad actor.

Invasion/Occupation of Iraq = a bad result caused by a bad actor.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:17 AM
//

History will have to judge your second postulation. In the 80s people went apefeces over Reagan. But his "madness" worked. He dismantled the USSR, without nukes even. Bush43 is trying a similar big picture strategy in erradicating Islamo Fascists. Iraq is about more than Iraq. We can only hope it works. Unless you'd like to live in fear of going to the mall like the Israelis.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:54 AM

My point is that many politicians cannot respond in a genuine "human" fashion to tragedy. This ability is beaten out of them by the necessity to make political decisions. The repeated exposure to and acceptance of win/lose scenarios in every facet of their world view hardens them. A doctor reacts differently to emergencies, a lawyer reacts differently to a summons and a cpa is not afraid of taxes. Politicians are required to control and direct their opinions, dreams, fears and even the very fabric of truth. The warping of reality necessarity spills over into their home life.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:54 AM

Goodnight. It's late here too.

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:56 AM

this boy really is a moron,

The Berg family wanted to talk to John Kerry.

They Did Not want to talk with bush.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 01:56 AM

//
phungus, Stop your double & triple posting Now
Posted by at May 15, 2004 01:23 AM
//

Stop telling me what to do, guy. Take your mommy complex somewhere else. It's a bug in the blog. Other people have posted about it. It's most likely a result of attempts to curb posts within "too short a time". Guess what, it don't workie-workie that well. Talk to whoever runs this thing.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 01:57 AM

Here's the Miller/Alterman link

http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/iMovieTheater127.html

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 01:58 AM

What ho! Reagan "dismantled" the USSR?

I concede that his actions earned reactions from the Soviets. So did the actions of every American president.

But to say that he killed the republic is absurd.

Many times I have been involved in business that saw competitors fail. We never believed that we sounded the death knell.

They collapsed under their own disfunctional weight.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 01:59 AM

>>> Iraq is about more than Iraq.

Yes, I'm familiar with the lunatic visions of the PNAC.

>>> He dismantled the USSR . . .

I'm also acquainted with the delusion that the Gipper's utterance of the phrases "evil empire" and "tear down this wall" was the proximal cause of the Soviet Union's self-implosion.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 02:00 AM

ok, who castrated Phungus?

not that I'm complaining or anything ;)

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:00 AM

>> Harrumph
My nic is Liberal-at-large to do one thing: to prod and gauge the response of others. My ideology is all over the place. Anyone who's seen my posts knows I'm right of center on defense and economic matters but left of center on "most" social, domestic & foriegn policy issues. Anyone who says they are "all" of one side or issue, doesn't have the intellectual curiousity of a shrub (hint!) or has some incentive ($$) to be that way -- aka Karl Rove.
I hang and associate with the lefties because most of them are honest, nuanced and will listen to what others have to say. Most righties put on the blinders & earplugs and point fingers - not my style. Thanks for the thoughtful words.

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 15, 2004 02:01 AM

//
Phungus, here's a question for you:

Why are conservatives so scared of socialism?

But anyhoo, back to the question: why are conservatives so threatened by socialism? (And we can lump communism into the mix, because I have no doubt that most people confuse the two.)
Posted by Harrumph at May 15, 2004 01:24 AM
//

Go ask "the conservatives". Socialism/communism/marxism/collectivisim, all shades of the same red. Consult your local World Book on the success of these ideas.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:01 AM

I have to say I don't give Reagan credit for the dismantling of the Soviet Union. It had everything to do with their own internal problems. When I was young (in 1982)I visited the then USSR and met many, including those who were part of the underground (so to speak), black market people. What works, is not threats, like those that Reagan made, but our culture and prosperity that the Soviets so desired.

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 02:02 AM

//
Does Phungus realize he's talking to himself? Hours and hours of talking to himself. Nothing he ever says, under any pseudonym, is even remotely compelling, but given he never changes his tactic or style, he apparently thinks it is really moving or something. Poor reality testing. Just curious.

Odd. Very odd. and sad.
Posted by Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:26 AM
//

If I'm talking to myself, then how or why did you answer, honey? Gnight hon.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:03 AM

sunshine
not sure of the point.
- conditioning of children by media?
- seeping of violence from leaders into media?
- inability to live duplicitously by attempting to teach children non-violence?

please elaborate...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 01:41 AM"""""

read whole article should answer all

lemme know ask questions then ; )))

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 02:03 AM

That was a really fun show. The more you bring back David Cross, the closer you'll get to paying that check to him. Let liberals laugh.

Posted by: David Also at May 15, 2004 02:04 AM

The fake fight was stupid and pointless, and what happened to Brockley and Janeane's father?

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:07 AM

phunnygas you can't be that stupid about ronny "mommy" raygun

FACTS & HISTORY show that he Did Not dismantle the soviet union, that is propaganda BS that you stupidly believe

Facts show that it was many people and many nations that had a lot to do with the fall of the USSR.

Every president from Truman to Clinton, every congressman, woman & Senator from WW 2 to the 90's was party responsible. Add in all the nations & govts of the Nato Alliance. Plus many different churchs. Hell the Pope(especially John Paul II) and the catholic church had much more to do with the soviet union collapse than any actor named reagan did.

Your entire brain must have blacked out never being informed about all of them.

You also are probably ignorant of what is acknowledged by historians to have started the final collapse of the ussr. I'll give you 10 mins to post that but you won't because you are ignorant of it.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:08 AM

Phungus: LOL!

OK, you got me. Is that what you live for?

Posted by: Catharine at May 15, 2004 02:10 AM

//
Mr. Phungus:
I've never had to justify a single one of my posts to anyone on this blog and I disagree with plenty of people (well, there was this one troll......). But as soon as you got spoofed by a "Seder" you've been downright decent about things. Just look at your posts after 12:29 and your fellow bloggers compliments that followed. Apologies to all; just a little experiment in reasoning with people who are being unreasonable.
I personally thought the "song" was over-the-top but I wanted to be, well, obvious.
Posted by Liberal-at-large at May 15, 2004 01:35 AM
//

That had nothing to do with anything. First of all, probably a fake post? Second of all. Who cares? Many of my posts were before I even saw that lame threat. I am what I am when I am. Must be a mellow Friday. Having to listen to only 10 idiots instead of 100 about how I post gigabytes of crap here a day under a dozen nics probably left me more reflective than defensive. But you guys keep up with your poetry lies, they rock hard.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:10 AM

//
I can only imagine the horror of living under the "covenants" of an HOA where the people in power bore any shred of resemblance to any current prominent member of the GOP.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 01:36 AM
//

Lived under an HOA once as a renter. Would never do that again as a renter, HELL NO as an owner. Happy to be free and clear in a city, no HOA. I'm not sure why you had to inject a jab at the GOP into something not related tho. Like Nik E Poo said, they are evil. Some people think the evil is worth the compromise, I don't.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:15 AM

Odd. Very odd. and sad.
Posted by Catharine at May 15, 2004 01:26 AM

He's a far right wing parrot of discredited BS.
Never has anything orginal in the least, just the same bs over and over. I doubt that he believes any of the garbage he spews.

Posted by: Joe Barnes at May 15, 2004 02:15 AM

sunshine
still not sure of the point, did it pertain to my thread about politicians?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:15 AM

Well dis a lively scene tonite! good on ya all
going to sleep/lurk mod
Back later

love to u'all

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 02:16 AM

With all dat Sunshine, how can you ever get ta sleep? Well, don't wanna keep ya up. Nite.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:18 AM

//
phunnygas you are less informed a 8 yr old kid.

Highly recommended book for your remedial reading is called "What Liberal Media"
just plug in the words in the amazon box kid

very biased exceptions are the extremist right wing ones that you love & cite such as faux news, ny post, all the right wing hate rags like newsmax, frontpagemag, worldnetdaily, freerepublic, etc
Posted by Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 01:36 AM
//

I've seen Eric Alterman interviewed. He is a grade-A kook. 100% not reliable. You could not konw or care about politics, and he comes acorss as a nut.

I'd offer you in return Bernard Goldberg, auther of _Bias_, written after his 30+ years at CBS. A bit more reliable.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895261901/102-8279667-7265753?v=glance

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:20 AM

Read it.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:23 AM

Well, I listened. [the Fishgrease Prophesy on tonight's show]

Sam did a good job defending my idea with Bill Scher... who I believe, last time he was on said the words, "Democracy in Iraq", seriously, as something possible in the real world. Of course, Scher thought the Fishgrease Prophecy was the most outlandish thing he had ever heard, and not because of the name (Fishgrease Prophesy).

Now, Mr. Scher used the following argument to counter the idea of Bush pulling out of Iraq this Summer:

BILL SCHER: "It defeats the entire reason why they did it. They did it because they wanted to expand the sphere of influence in the region, they want to control resources, control political power, and to do that just puts that all in jeopardy. I cannot believe they would cut that off."

Obviously a very intelligent answer. Smart guy. I doubt many people could think on their feet like that... I doubt I could. In fact, I agree with everything he said about what the Bush bunch think they're doing over there and the reasons they went over there in the first place. I agree how dear those concepts are to Bush and his Neos. But Scher kinda got off topic. Problem: He didn't answer Sam's question.

SAM: "What if Bush gets up and says 'The Iraqis have asked us to leave, we've done our best shot, we're gonna get out,' Where does that leave Kerry?"

BILL SCHER: "I don't believe in a million years... that that's what's going to happen."

I don't fault him for his non-answer, because if somebody popped the same question on me, my immediate answer would have been the same, only with a few "fucking" and "shit" modifiers thrown in.

I'll leave it there for this post and pick it up next. Please withold comments until I have it all out.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 02:23 AM

Anybody still here?

I read today that AAR was having more financial problems and missed their payroll. This frightens me. We can't lose out AAR! Someone say it isn't so!

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:24 AM

//
Isn't it funny how "tone" can change so many things? I hate how the tone has been set by our media, pitting "conservative" against "liberal". They've deliberately kept us at each other's throats and look at the result: there is no real discussion of the issues, just defensiveness. Nothing gets solved... there is no middle ground. Everything gets reduced to base generalizations and namecalling.

I wonder how much we could accomplish in this country by doing something to change the tone and open the lines of discussion.
Posted by Harrumph at May 15, 2004 01:43 AM
//

Interesting post. But I think humanity is just humanity (at least in the "civilized" world, not the Arab gutter head chopping world). People like to bitch. The UK and Canada have in effect a more multi-party system, but I think it just brings out even more kooks. I dunno. In the end, fringe parties here may make some inroads locally but all they do nationally is distract from the bigger picture. For better or for worse.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:25 AM

Just a heads up for Sam and Janeanne- if you tell people to get a satellite radio to hear air america, tell them to get a Sirius satellite radio, not XM.

XM Radio is partly owned by Clear Channel Corporation, who organised pro-war protests, and are republican toadies.

Posted by: matt1234 at May 15, 2004 02:25 AM

Nik E Poo,

I concede, or at least I understand your argument and I agree. It is psychological. It is conditioning. The "very fabric of truth" swayed my perspective on your point.

Yes, they become different because politicos are in the business of dealing with mind games with other humans.

Not ordinary, everyday mindgames, but life and death mindgames on a macro scale.

I don't know if that aspect of governence could ever be eliminated?

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 02:25 AM

*Retreat On Rules For Wartime Dishonors Core U.S. Values*

Friday May 14, 04

Attempts to set rules for conducting war have been made for centuries, dating back at least to Chinese warrior Sun Tzu in the sixth century B.C. In 1865, a Confederate officer was executed for murdering Union prisoners of war, and others were punished. The Geneva Conventions, written in fits and starts during the past 150 years, are the most concerted effort to ban war atrocities...

Full Story at:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=679&ncid=742&e=1&u=/usatoday/20040514/cm_usatoday/retreatonrulesforwartimedishonorscoreusvalues

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 02:26 AM

I don't think Reagan was about being effective or smart or anything. He was the prez. Charismatic, clear vision type guy ... leader qualities. The premise was that his staff was chock full of super smart people (like stockman) who came up with the ideas ... Reagan only had to deliver them. In that regard, I think Reagan did the job, and in many ways , his staff was reasonably honest and (compared to what we have now) pretty damn moderate. I also think that if Reagan had been presented with more liberal ideas, he would have sold them with equal conviction. I don't think credit for USSR is due but, it did happen on his watch sooooo politicians took full advantage of it ... (see my previous thread)

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:27 AM

Ronnie Raygun was a hero in his own mind. The only thing he dismantled was the USA. Guess you are all to young to remember what a mighty economic engine this country was before the Raygun tax "reforms" that not only took out a huge loan to make richer his rich supports as the current sAdministration is doing, but more importantly, made it extremely profitable for corporations to sell American patents, copyrights, trademarks and processes to foreign companies. Before jobs could be exported (outsourced), the technology had to sent overseas. Ronnie Raygun was a smoother talker than Bush but no more intelligent or sincere.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:28 AM

//
What ho! Reagan "dismantled" the USSR?

I concede that his actions earned reactions from the Soviets. So did the actions of every American president.

But to say that he killed the republic is absurd.

Many times I have been involved in business that saw competitors fail. We never believed that we sounded the death knell.

They collapsed under their own disfunctional weight.
Posted by writ large at May 15, 2004 01:59 AM
//

And that disfunctional weight would be the weight borne by the Reagan arms buildup. Their communist system could not hang with it. The Soviets had a LOT of brilliant people working on things. But their capacity for indsutrialism and BUILDING things was shoddy.

That resulted in success (after Reagan was out of office). It's called a big picture.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:30 AM

anyone heard any good news or should I start mourning now?

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:31 AM

Meg, that is partially untrue old news.

bumpy takeoff for aar but they are doing fine with a lot of early success.

company restructering and correcting former 2 execs mistake. many new stations coming.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:31 AM

Yeah, Greasy. I hate when people don't want to have to be imaginative outside their own pat answers and they go to "Oh, that wouldn't happen so it's not worth speculating." As if any prognostication isn't naturally speculation...

For example, today on the Howard Stern show, there was a bunch of curious crazies who he called the 'God hates Fags' family because these women and their kids, sisters, cousins, sons, daughters, whatever, all go around the country preaching just that. They say 'We love fags - we want they to know how god feels so we tell them.'

Well, somebody asked the question of the mom, 'What would you do if your daughter didn't follow the family belief and/or was gay?' The mom answered 'Oh, that would never happen, so I won't even give an answer'

This happens everywhere you look. And usually, there's no follow up to get the answer. It would be really easy to press it a little more and just ask the person, 'Well, just make-believe...'

I agree with you, Scher was on his game and is very sharp and smart. He's mostly very well thought out, from my limited exposure.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:34 AM

I know this is the Majority Report blog, but they ARE on the same station so I thought it would be ok to report this here.

I heard that Franken wiped the floor with Coulter in their debate tonight. Not that there was every much doubt that he would, at least not from me.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:34 AM

//
phunnygas you can't be that stupid about ronny "mommy" raygun

FACTS & HISTORY show that he Did Not dismantle the soviet union, that is propaganda BS that you stupidly believe

Facts show that it was many people and many nations that had a lot to do with the fall of the USSR.

Your entire brain must have blacked out never being informed about all of them.

You also are probably ignorant of what is acknowledged by historians to have started the final collapse of the ussr. I'll give you 10 mins to post that but you won't because you are ignorant of it.
Posted by at May 15, 2004 02:08 AM
//

Last time I checked reality, the Cold War ended, the Wall fell, the Soviert republic splintered....before Clinton was in office. Silly boy who knows his "history" from brainwashing and not living through it.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:36 AM

Franken is a subtle master. Ann couldn't shine his shoes. Glad to hear it. I'm sure there will be plenty of talk on Monday morning. ;)

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:36 AM

G'nite y'all. Peace.
*sleepy time*
Now play nice Mr. Phungus or the big-bad Seder might come out from under your bed again.

>>petemoon: *wiping the sweat from my brow*, but you're still on point, dude.

Posted by: Liberal-at-large at May 15, 2004 02:36 AM

The tit for tat arms (and war) expenditure between Reagan and the Soviet Union is well studied and often proffered as the cause of the end of the USSR.

To give it the total weight of the cause of the end of the USSR is not to see the "bigger picture."

Arms escalation and a lousy cash producing economy and poor wheat yeilds and tough winters and lots of other setbacks befell the Soviets over a number of years long before Ronald Reagan was in the Oval Office.

It is over simplistic to attach Reagan to the end simply because he was there to see it.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 02:37 AM

"Meg, that is partially untrue old news.

bumpy takeoff for aar but they are doing fine with a lot of early success.

company restructering and correcting former 2 execs mistake. many new stations coming."

Actually this was something more recent. The article I read was from May 8th. This was about them missing payroll, not about the two stations that got taken off the air. It was supposedly a new incident. Plus supposedly a lot of AARs execs have resigned.

I don't WANT to lose my AAR. I hope to God it's all either exaggerated or completely untrue.

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:37 AM

Night LaL. Good job tonite.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:37 AM

Time to go have nightmares about a fake Sam Seder stalking and shooting me like he promised.

Audi 5.

Posted by: phungus at May 15, 2004 02:39 AM

As a person who has spent the past 12 years in startups, I can tell you that Al Franken ain't goin nowhere. You can hear it in his voice. He's gonna do what it takes ... and baby ... it can get a whole lot uglier than missing a couple payrolls!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:40 AM

-- that was my Telly Savales imitation

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:41 AM

Sounds like a kinder gentler form of torture

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:42 AM

That is Bullshit phunnygas.

Reagan ran up (at the time) record deficits

He was no more responsible for ussr mostly self collapse(as Catherine stated) than any modern president or member of congress. Historians don't agree with your fiction at all.

I knew that you were ignorant of the seminal movement that started the collapse of communism in eastern europe. That was the trade union and freedom movement that started in Gdansk, Poland by Lech Walesa.
That was also aided and abetted strongly by the catholic church under Polish Pope Carol Wytola(John Paul II) who had a hell of a lot more to do with the collapse of communism than a hapless reagan.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 02:42 AM

Ok, I'm in ... here's a thought ... the whole concept of a standing army is out dated. US is the only super-power. Nobody is ever gonna try anything like a standup fight. And besides, last time I checked we had nukes. Why bring a knife to a gun fight?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:45 AM

phunnygas,

F.Y.I. - That was the Real Sam Seder that was fed up with your antics posting here.

Pay attention to what he said.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 02:45 AM

So I shouldn't worry then. Good.

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:46 AM

. . . tell them to get a Sirius satellite radio, not XM.
Posted by: matt1234 at May 15, 2004 02:25 AM
=============================================

Um . . . Hello?

XM writes a fat check to AAR every month to carry AAR programming.

Just how hard do you expect them to bite the hand that feeds them?

p.s. see up-thread if you think for one instant I'm an XM apologist!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 02:47 AM

Did Sam actually mention the guy?

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:48 AM

p.p.s. Janeane's name is spelled Janeane.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 02:48 AM

Nik E Poo,

I'm with you on this one.

Not to mention the preposterous drain on the American tax base to maintain an extra-super-bigger-than-god killing capability.

Who are we expecting at the front door? Martians?

If the U.S. was able to mobilize a war machine from nearly nothing after Pearl Harbor, then it ought to do quite nicely with half of the head start that it has now.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 02:49 AM

Ok, Im confused. The first articles I read said that Nick Berg was "a Bush supporter".

This story is so weird. Was he not?

His father is obviously not.

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:50 AM

Meg, in the radio world, last week is old news.

In short, 2 aar execs that were also part of the investor group left the company, one staying part time. A couple of middle management people also left. This is normal in most startup companies.

The execs mismanaged the chicago, la situation, the money flow and the business model.

The restructing of aar means a better, healthier, better business model aar.
They are here to stay.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:53 AM

Meg,

There are millions of listeners to AAR. Sounds like it's working to me. Why wouldn't that attract more sponsors, money, etc.? The business model looks like it's pretty promising.

Lots of folks would love to see this be a failure (not to name names). Just 'cause they put it out that it's not gonna work, it's a failure, there's no audience for it, etc., coupled with the known startup problems they've had, unfortunately which then becomes more grist for the naysayer mill, the situation can look worse than it actually is.

I'm thinking that BloReilly has learned that giving something publicity by going after it (meaning our Al and his highly successful book) only boosts its success. If the rest of the righties pick up that small lesson, they would be downplaying the existance of this little network by not making it newsworthy and ignoring it. Maybe I'm giving people more credit than I should...

So let's be hopeful. I'd really miss AAR if it had to go away, too. Sound like you would, too.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 02:53 AM

Actually, I've read (not that that means anything) that the US industrial complex was the reason for our victory in WWII. Innovation combined with abundant natural resources and plenty of skilled manufactoring labor (read unions). Unfortunately, this does not exist today and our power and transportation systems are strained to the limit.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:54 AM

phungus

I lived through Raygun. Hell, I lived through Ike (the last true Republican President), JFK, LBJ, tricky dick, Carter (probably the best of the century) and I'll survive Bush. You are wrong about Raygun and the USSR. His misquided jingism helped ruin our country, not theirs.

Please read some primary sources before you accuse others of being brainwashed. Don't rely on texts and analysis.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 02:55 AM

So I shouldn't worry then. Good.
Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:46 AM
=========================================

Meg:

You can check out today's Star Tribune article posted in the Hour Three blog at 10:36PM for quotes from Al Franken about what's going on, but, absent direct quotes from the people involved, anything you read is just opinion.

You should enjoy every wonderful moment that's available. AAR will either succeed or fail. You shouldn't let concerns about AAR's future color your experience of it in the moment.

I once heard a great man say:

"The only difference I can see between you and your dog is that if I threw both of you out of a 40th story window, your dog would have a good time on the way down."

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 02:57 AM

Okay, I feel better.

The reason I didn't hear this story last week was because my stupid DSL has been out for the last two weeks and 98% of my news comes from sites on the internet or AAR. I haven't been able to listen as much lately because of the connection problem.

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 02:57 AM

(*waves to Ernie*)

fellow Carter admirer!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 02:58 AM

Damn! Just watched that Dennis Miller Moth interview (if you can call it that). It appears Dennis has relinquished any semblance of civility in favor of ... hell I don't even know. All in all, I think it went pretty good. Dennis did not make a single point.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 02:58 AM

Dont worry pete. If it fails, it wont be because I wasn't listening.

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 03:00 AM

In all fairness to history, Miller coughed up an apology to Alterman the next day of some sort. I don't expect Eric will be back to his dojo, though.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:01 AM

Nik E Poo,

Perhaps the current U.S. industrial base is not (proportionately) what it was in 1941?

Who knows how it would play out if the U.S. military was in the same (proportional) state today as it was then, and if it needed to gear up for a (proportional) world war?

I cannot imagine that, if the auto industry turned to military materiel along with Boeing and Hughes and Rubbermaid and whoever else still operates manufacturing capabilities, the result would not be the same as it was in 1941.

Recall that households were turning in there cookware for the effort.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 03:01 AM

Hey Pete, do you live in Memphis?

I know a Pete Moon here... IF that is your real name.

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 03:02 AM

Air's got my ears at least 6 hours a day. And I intend to help spread the word.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:03 AM

I agree. Also with all the extra cash of not maintaining a standing army, we can blow coin on silly stuff like food, housing and health care (or more tax cuts for the rich). In the end, I think that nuclear standoff is a great way to fight a war ... as long as nobody takes a shot, everybody wins ...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:05 AM

And another damn thing ... didn't the founding fathers say we should have a militia? (read citizens with guns) If we stuck to that principle, then every time some snapperhead wanted to go to war with another country, they would have to ask for volunteers (and don't forget to bring your rifle).

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:07 AM

Hi Meg.

It's not my "unreal" name. :)

It's my nickname.

My legal name is Peter Mooney, and I live in North Carolina.

Most people seem to think I may be some drummer from some band, but he had a different first name.

I travel constantly, but Memphis is one of the places I've always wanted to see, but haven't yet.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:07 AM

Foof! What will those silly liberals want to blow money on next?

First it's food, housing and health care...

Next it'll be education and non-petroleum energy production.

In time, they may blow cash on the arts.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 03:08 AM

I'm a waffle house junkie! No tenessee slur intended

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:09 AM

*Torture Pics Mean Neo-Cons Finished*

*A Time For Truth*

Wednesday, May 12, 2004
By Patrick J. Buchanan

With pictures of the sadistic sexual abuse of Iraqis in Abu Ghraib prison still spilling out onto the front pages, it is not too early to draw some conclusions.

The neoconservative hour is over. All the blather about "empire," our "unipolar moment," "Pax Americana" and "benevolent global hegemony" will be quietly put on a shelf and forgotten as infantile prattle.

America is not going to fight a five- or 10-year war in Iraq. Nor will we be launching any new invasions soon. The retreat of American empire, begun at Fallujah, is underway.

With a $500 billion deficit, we do not have the money for new wars. With an Army of 480,000 stretched thin, we do not have the troops. With April-May costing us a battalion of dead and wounded, we are not going to pay the price. With the squalid photos from Abu Ghraib, we no longer have the moral authority to impose our "values" on Iraq.

Bush's "world democratic revolution" is history.

Given the hatred of the United States and Bush in the Arab world, as attested to by Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, it is almost delusional to think Arab peoples are going to follow America's lead.

It is a time for truth. In any guerrilla war we fight, there is going to be a steady stream of U.S. dead and wounded. There is going to be collateral damage – i.e., women and children slain and maimed. There will be prisoners abused. And inevitably, there will be outrages by U.S. troops enraged at the killing of comrades and the jeering of hostile populations. If you would have an empire, this goes with the territory. And if you are unprepared to pay the price, give it up.

The administration's shock and paralysis at publication of the S&M photos from Abu Ghraib tell us we are not up to it. For what is taking place in Iraq is child's play compared to what we did in the Philippines a century ago. Only there, they did not have digital cameras, videocams and the Internet.

Iraq was an unnecessary war that may become one of the great blunders in U.S. history...

(GAP Note: Buchanan's column is seperate from the right wing repub content at worldnetdaily where it was posted. I believe that he has always been against the Iraq war)

Full story at:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38454

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:09 AM

Funny... theres a Pete Moon here who owns a resteraunt/bar type place. RP Tracks. R for Rick, P for Peter, tracks for the tracks that run right by the restarant. (two for one shooters when the train is going by!)

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 03:09 AM

I'll be sure to look up RP Tracks when I finally make my pilgrimage.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:12 AM

[the Fishgrease Prophesy on tonight's show, continued]

Let's look at why Bill doesn't think it will happen again here:

I agree that to pull out puts all that in jeopardy, but not in as much jeopardy as losing the election would. Remember my primary premise: Bush WILL NOT let Iraq cost him this election. Right now, that's pretty much Kerry's working strategy -- to let Iraq cost Bush this election.

Bush's approval number (VERY important, even right now) is 44%

Here's the money shot (VERY important): Bush WILL NOT let Iraq cost him this election, because this election will cost him Iraq!

The same Interim Government which asks Bush to leave... can ask him to return sometime between early November (Bush re-elected) and the Iraqi "Democratic" elections in January '05. Again, Sam and Janeane are correct that it would not be a real withdrawal. Upon being "asked" to leave, Bush would pull our troops and equipment back into heavily fortified and guarded areas... what I'm calling "Election Cocoons". Then, he would give our troops a much deserved trip home and a chance to father their prospective offspring and rest. He would rotate the small 20,000 or so troops needed to guard the cocoons.

No non-used-up equipment would leave Iraq. The outward appearance would be withdrawal, because families are welcoming home their husbands, wives, sons, daughters, mothers and fathers. The rotation would allow everyone to come home. Bush's approval numbers gain the highly critical 10% to 12% and we're back to the question which Bill Scher didn't answer:

"Where does that leave Kerry?"

Now, I guess I'm saying this is going to happen. I guaran-fucking-tee you, the plan is there and that it does not differ substantially with what I've outlined. If it appears to Bush and Cheney and especially to Karl Rove that Bush will lose this election, will they use the plan? You goddamned right they will!

The best way to foil the plan is to expose it. That's what we's a doin' here.

SAM, I'm going to keep posting this critique until you email me (or otherwise let me know) that you've read it. I invite you to raise these points with Bill Scher, although I think he's probably been thinking about them since he left the program last night. Like I said, he's a smart guy. I know damned well You and Janeane are smart. Again, anyone, find the flaw in this sentence:

Bush WILL NOT let Iraq cost him this election, because this election will cost him Iraq!

Oh... and most of all, Thanks!

Fishgrease

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:12 AM

I've noticed Buchanan isn't too happy with Bush. He also tore Bush a new one over the deficit.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:12 AM

Are Rick and Peter "very good friends?" LOL

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:12 AM

Thanks for posting Buchanan's piece, Patriot. It's brilliant.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:13 AM

I am so so tired. I HAVE o go to bed!

ssee? I cant even type anymore

Posted by: Meg at May 15, 2004 03:14 AM

Can this be the self-same Pat Buchanan who declared the GOP's "culture war" in 1992?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:14 AM

And, whatever happened to Bay Buchanan?

Has she found some new corner to whine in?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:15 AM

Night-night, Meg. :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:15 AM

One more shot, then I'm outa here.

It is important to me that the U.S. spends more money on defense (defence, take your pick) than any society anywhere, ever.

The figures vary wildly, so I won't quote any of them, but whatever it is, it's a big un.

If even small portion of that money was diverted to other needs, or never collected in the first place, the results are mind-boggling.

Posted by: writ large at May 15, 2004 03:16 AM

Sunshine Jim & Fishgrease, you guys still up?

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:17 AM

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirAmericaFans/

Air America Listeners For The Troops

This group has two purposes.

Get the troops everything they need, want or desire to help keep moral high and the women and men safe or sane is given.

Make certain that when our troops get home that they are praised and never blamed for being in a war that was started by an administration that at best was misguided at worst was WAG THE DOG.

your input for a new definition of fan and activest. Will be setting up meetups around the nation with the Democracy For America groups.

Posted by: angrycalifornian at May 15, 2004 03:18 AM

>>> . . . a chance to father their prospective offspring . . .

I'd make that:

"their well-deserved prospective offspring"

but, hey, that's just the editor in me. :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:19 AM

Scary how much I like what Mr. Buchanan has to say more often than I'd like to admit. And this from worldnetdaily?

Oh well, like you said, GAP, he has always been against the war. And he's apart from the wingnuts there? I'll take a look. Thanks.

This could relate to what S & J were talking about yesterday about test balloons being sent up from the white house press corps and the fox-type guys. Trying to change the dialogue to ready W's (fake) retreat. Float the idea, make it look like a reality so the public gets a rosier picture of the next few months to come, and trying to get the popularity back up for the reelection...

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:21 AM

(*waves to angrycalifornian*)

Hiya. :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:21 AM

Yeow! I guess I made that curry pork a little hot!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:21 AM

Hey Patriot!

Still up!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:22 AM

Scary how much I like what Mr. Buchanan has to say more often than I'd like to admit
Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:21 AM
================================================

Maybe Pat's angling to take over Dennis Miller's former space on HBO?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:22 AM

Ya think?

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:23 AM

Yep Pete thats the same Pat Buchanan,
he's a bit of a odd duck conservative, different than his bush loyal sister bay who still pops up to debate donna brazile on CNN

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:23 AM

Can't stand bay, think brazile's a monotonous bore

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:24 AM

BTW - Sam looks like Ted Bessel the way I look like J-Lo.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:25 AM

Pat B is a real fiscal conservative ... good chance those guys are not gonna vote for Bush this year. If Kerry even hints at fiscal responsibility, he's gonna win by a landslide. Of course, Pat is still a racist blowhard ... no offense

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:26 AM

Just saw Powell on tv saying we will leave if not wanted.

PLD

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 03:27 AM

pm: I don't get it. Do you have a smooth round ass?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:28 AM

Bremer was saying the exact same thing earlier today. Must be the new party line. Them talking points...

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:29 AM

I've got nothing against Pat's [former?] stridency on social issues. It's credited with spurring Mama Bear (oops, sorry, meant Mama Bush) with coming out of her Pro-Choice closet.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:29 AM

pm: I don't get it. Do you have a smooth round ass?
Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 03:28 AM
=================================================

LOL. My ass is ample, but is far more reminiscent of cottage cheese than anything smooth and round.

Hence, my use of it to underline how remarkably unlike Ted Bessel, Sam looks.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:31 AM

~~~ Just saw Powell on tv saying we will leave if not wanted. ~~~

We Fishgreasers are calling that the THIRD SIGN. There'll be more. Its the sort of plan that has to be set up.

Powell is the third Administration official to say the same thing in the last day and a half.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:31 AM

p.s. now that I look at Sam's pic again, he reminds me much more of Marlo Thomas than Ted Bessel.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:33 AM

Fishgrease, Read your manifesto in progress:

http://fishmanifesto.com

In short, shiite muslim ayatollah sistani gets to run the country as a islamic republic, kurds get their own country in the north.

You do know that the sunni muslims would not stand for being shut out like that?

It was the brits in the early part of the 20th century that drew up the Iraq lines. Maybe it should be three countrys, kurdistan in the north, sunni area & shiite area.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:34 AM

Powell is the third Administration official to say the same thing in the last day and a half.
Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:31 AM
=================================================

Oooh!!! Scoopage!!!!

Who wre the other two?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 03:34 AM

You can set your watch by the predictability of these guys.

I'm just hoping that more and more people are finally having the foggy veil lifted from their collective duped eyes.

Posted by: I'm goody and I approve this message at May 15, 2004 03:36 AM

Pete,

Pete, part 3 of the fishgrease manifesto
http://www.fishmanifesto.com

When we read this we should wear fishgrease hats.

What does a fishgrease hat consist of anyway?

I'm starting to smell deep fried breaded fish fishgrease mind control.

hehe

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:50 AM

Patriot,

~~~ You do know that the sunni muslims would not stand for being shut out like that? ~~~

1) They aren't being shut out. Sistani is smart enough to include the cooperative Sunnis because its easier than killing them. I thought I'd mentioned that in the Manifesto. If not, I will and thank you for bringing it up.

2) They're all Iraqis (besides the Kurds, who are also, interestingly, Sunni, although nothing as mush as simply Kurds). They're all Iraqis in the same way Baptists and Catholics are all Americans. Why we think all Sunnis and all Shiites hate each other... is our problem, not theirs.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:51 AM

~~~ What does a fishgrease hat consist of anyway? ~~~

Take any hat, preferrably a seedstore or baitstore hat. Wear it fishing for catfish until the lettering is still only vaguely readable.... Fishgrease Hat!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 03:57 AM

~~~ Who wre the other two? ~~~

Another guy from the State Department, he was actually first, yesterday, then today Bremer and Powell.

There'll be more. Just listen.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:00 AM

***Support for Iraq War Has Dropped To 36 Percent***

*Support For Bush Plummets Over Iraq*

By James Harding in Washington
May 14 2004

Public support for President George W. Bush's handling of the war in Iraq has plunged to only 36 per cent and his approval rating has fallen to the lowest level of his presidency, according to a Zogby poll due out on Sunday.

Confronted with a rising US body count and images of torture in Abu Ghraib prison, Americans have begun to countenance failure in Iraq. The majority of people polled now do not think it was worth going to war.

The shift in the national mood bodes ill for Mr Bush's hopes of a second term and has bolstered the campaign of John Kerry, his Democrat challenger.

The poll will show 42 per cent of people approve of Mr Bush's overall performance. Almost two-thirds are critical of his handling of Iraq, according to John Zogby, the pollster.

In an American Research Group poll, Mr Kerry moved ahead of Mr Bush in the swing state of Ohio, standing at 50 per cent compared with 43 per cent for the president.

Most alarming to the strategists running Mr Bush's campaign is that 54 per cent of the 1,000-plus likely voters surveyed by Zogby this week said they thought the country was heading in the wrong direction.

Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster and political strategist, said public opinion was moving against the war: "The photographs projected everything the public thinks is wrong about the war and drowned out everything the public thinks is right . . .[The president] has to be concerned."

John Mueller, a political scientist at Ohio State University, says the situation in the US is now "fairly comparable . . . to late '67, early '68 when there was a really substantial decline of support".

Mr Mueller said that much as public backing for the Vietnam war never returned to 50 per cent-plus levels after 1968, so "it is hard to imagine much of a recovery now. As American casualties continue to come in, the support will continue to erode."

In response to the change of mood, the administration's rhetoric advocating the building of a "beacon of liberty" in Iraq has been shored up by language warning of the catastrophe of withdrawal.

As Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, left for Europe to seek support for further troop commitments to the US-led coalition in Iraq, she said: "I would ask people to remember what it was like in World War II. We lost many, many people. Nobody abandoned the countries of Europe because it got tough, because it got hard."

Yet some senior US military officials have begun to express fears that the US will run out of political will before the mission in Iraq is complete.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1083180528014&p=1012571727088

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:00 AM

~~~ "their well-deserved prospective offspring" ~~~

Pete,

I have three kids. I'm not sure anybody deserves them.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:03 AM

~~~ Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, left for Europe to seek support for further troop commitments to the US-led coalition in Iraq ~~~

Patriot,

Man! I hadn't heard that! That's actually funny! Bet she gets some laughs with that!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:07 AM

marlo thomas as in 'that girl'?

Posted by: cate at May 15, 2004 04:07 AM

possibly i am asking someone who is no longer here...

Posted by: cate at May 15, 2004 04:09 AM

Patriot,

I think someone is paging you.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:10 AM

Fishgrease, send Janeane a Fishgrease hat.

Address is at contacts at the home page AAR

Either that or a Fishgrease button or T Shirt.

hehehe...

Fishgrease.com or Fishgrease.org
don't come up so don't know if they are available

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:11 AM

~~~ "their well-deserved prospective offspring"
Pete,
I have three kids. I'm not sure anybody deserves them.
Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:03 AM
==============================================

NOBODY deserves that.

It's the inference of the operative term "prospective" that's richly deserved!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 04:15 AM

--
Show talk Friday included mentioning the Portland radio personalities who lost their gig after
playing the ghoulish death throes screams on air repeatedly.

Perhaps they were goaded to it. By another PDX station in competition with them for p.m. ratings,
where the air personality appeared to get away with it unaffected.

See following letter from the May 13 archives of the BuzzFlash mailbag.

-------------
Subject: Writing sounds telephone

Dear BuzzFlash,

Let this be a test of the internet media concert system. All together now ... A raving-right hate programmer broadcasts 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m daily in Portland on KXL 750 AM which is owned by Paul Allen, the Teller to Bill Gates' Penn, quite well-to-do, lives in Seattle environs.

The hatist is named Liars Larson, and aptly so. May 12, between 11:00 am and noon, his program broadcast the sound track of the death throes of Nick Berg. A dub of that hour's broadcast is commercially available from Moba Media, in Portland, 503-223-1677, by citing the channel, day and hour, costing a moderate fee.

Does someone reading this know Paul Allen's phone number where the program tape could be replayed into his message machine? It would suffice to identify it to Paul Allen's voice mail to include a :03 or :05 second roll-in of Liars' broadcast voice spewing an unconscionable 'set-up.'

This one letter, this one day, this one time, routed literally around the internet, (no petition to sign!), might reach a reader who cares to acquire a dub (or has another way to get one) of the offense, and perhaps has or knows of a phone number for Paul Allen, and acts to conduct it, can end the broadcast employment of Liars.

Thousands, millions of souls could be healed by removing Liars poison. If only Paul Allen could hear what his money sounds like on his radio station.

Wendi Meremark
Oregon City

Posted by: Meremark at May 15, 2004 04:18 AM

Sam is in New York City. I'm by Chicago

Fishgrease you in one of the known citys out there? Cheyenne or Laramie?

Where was Cheney's old district?

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:19 AM

marlo thomas as in 'that girl'?
Posted by: cate at May 15, 2004 04:07 AM
=========================================

Sorry for the delay, cate. I was taking a Fishgr . . . oops . . . I mean . . . leak.

Yeah, "THAT" Marlo Thomas.

Sam & Janeane were agreeing that Sam looks like Ted Bessel, who played Donald Hollinger in "That Girl." And, I was saying that Sam looks more like Marlo -- especially when you consider that Ted's been dead for about 8 years now.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 04:20 AM

Journalists Discussion of the bad news for bush coming up now on Lou Dobbs CNN repeat.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:21 AM

They just said "Fishgrease" on Sirius again. Is MR repeat on the real stream now? I haven't streamed once since I got the Sirius a week ago. Guess I should leave some computers in the stream on mute to keep the numbers up.

Been meaning to check the stream late-night. On Sirius, after 11, when they play the news, they play the show at the same time -- overlapping. Do you get that on the stream?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 04:24 AM

~~~ Fishgrease, send Janeane a Fishgrease hat. ~~~

In due time, you damned straight. The other fishgrease URLs were taken. I can't give my city name because its a small town and I'm the only Democrat. Don't wanna get lynched!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:26 AM

Wasn't Ted Bessel Gay?

*Fox takes gay-themed reality show one step further*

Reuters, Los Angeles, May 14: Two straight men will do their best to pass themselves off as gay as they compete for $50,000 (28,000 pounds) in an upcoming Fox television special, "Seriously, Dude, I'm Gay", the network says.

The two-hour show, set to air June 7, marks the latest in the burgeoning TV sub-genre of gay-themed reality shows, such as "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and the previous Fox offering "Playing It Straight".

"Queer Eye", in which five gay men teach a heterosexual slob how to dress, dine and design, caught on quickly with gay and straight audiences alike, first on the Bravo cable channel and then on its sister broadcast network NBC.

But "Seriously, Dude, I'm Gay" has raised the eyebrows of at least one gay activist group, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, which questioned the show's premise as potentially offensive and the "inflammatory" tone of the original press release announcing it.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:26 AM

I bet my town is smaller!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 04:29 AM

come'on ... you can out your democrat status by taking a turn on the pantsonfiremobile! I've signed up ... neighbors will be in for a surprise.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 04:30 AM

~~~ Where was Cheney's old district? ~~~

His district is Teton (Jackson Hole) where all the reat of the goddamned rich foreigners live. Mostly movie stars and pre-tech-bubble-bust billionaires live.

Cheney is a Texan. He moved back to Wyoming right before the election so that they didn't have a two Texan ticket. NOBODY would have thought THAT safe!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:31 AM

Wasn't Ted Bessel Gay?
Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:26 AM
==================================================

He certainly had great potential, but I never heard that. If he was, then his "last project" (see below) was a fitting irony.

==================================================

Biography for Ted Bessell

Birth name: Terrence Bessell

Born: 20 March 1935, Queens, New York, USA
Died: 6 October 1996, Los Angeles, California, USA. (aortic aneurysm)

Height: 6'

Born in New York City, Ted's early career included guest appearances in soap operas, 'Lover Come Back (1961)' and "It's a Man's World (1962)". Ted would go on to appear as Frankie on "Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C. (1964)", but his big break would be as "That Guy" on the successful Marlo Thomas Television series "That Girl (1966)". As Don Hollinger, he would play the boyfriend of aspiring actress Ann Marie. After that, he appeared in a number of short lived Television comedy series including "Me and the Chimp (1972)", "Good Time Harry (1980)" and "Hail to the Chief (1985)". After being stereotyped as the good boyfriend, Ted found jobs hard to find so he moved towards the direction and production end of Television. Ted directed episodes of "The Tracey Ullman Show" and "Sibs". At the time of his death, he was preparing to direct a movie version of the Television series "Bewitched".

Pronounced dead shortly after 1 a.m. in UCLA Medical Center emergency room.

Is interred at Woodlawn Cemetary, Santa Monica, CA

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 04:33 AM

~~~ In short, shiite muslim ayatollah sistani gets to run the country as a islamic republic, kurds get their own country in the north. ~~~

Patriot,

Not really "gets to".

IS GOING to! No matter how many thin coats of democracy paint we put on it.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:35 AM

~~~ come'on ... you can out your democrat status ~~~

We get Kerry elected and I'll go through town with a bullhorn shouting "NEEENER NEEENER!"

Until then, I'm in the closet.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:38 AM

Pete Moon,

How is Sirius working for you?

Yep, Sirius repeats All The News That Fits then Majority Report after the O'Franken Factor repeat instead of the home station & stream repeating Randi Rhodes. That is the only difference

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:43 AM

I think I'll eat some thai food, read the paper, then sleep and think about a beautiful thai girl

Thinking about "thai-ing one on" in Bangkok

Back late morning. zzzzzzzz

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:51 AM

gotta go check on those calves

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 04:54 AM

Nite Patriot!

I'll get you a hat!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 04:56 AM

how many calves you got nik?

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:58 AM

Cool Fishgrease!!

You mean I win a Hat for fishgreasing?

groovy

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 05:04 AM

Pete Moon,
How is Sirius working for you?
Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 04:43 AM
=================================================

Sirius is working great!

Except that after midnight, every time there's AAR News, I get the three minutes of news played concurrently (simultaneously -- overlapping with) the first three minutes of the show segment. It's really agrivating. Worse than the O'Franken "audio crawl" because it's for real.

In general, I'm loving the freedom from the stream (almost like a horny salmon).

I got the AudioVox brand Sirius components. They sell a receiver, a "home dock," and a "mobile dock."

I got one of each, but then swapped the home dock for a second mobile dock. The only practical difference between the two docks is that the mobile dock, in addition to an "audio out" jack, has the ability to broadcast on FM 88.1, .3, .5, .7, or .9. By using a "mobile dock" at home, I can tune any radio in the house (and anywhere in the yard) to Sirius.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 05:07 AM

That's right, Patriot.

There'll be hats and you get one.

You're helping loads by picking through my points. You're a damned good greaser!

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 05:12 AM

how many calves you got nik?

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 05:29 AM

ohhhh ok i get it now. hahahahaha ha ha

Posted by: cate at May 15, 2004 05:37 AM

too many ha's

Posted by: cate at May 15, 2004 05:39 AM

Last words for the night/early morn

>That's right, Patriot.

There'll be hats and you get one.

You're helping loads by picking through my points. You're a damned good greaser!
Posted by Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 05:12 AM>

hmmm... Fishgrease merchandise, cool

sometimes I'm pretty good at picking through the fishgrease

"Fishgrease is more than a word, it's a Philosophy"

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 05:47 AM

An ever-widening scandal: Bush faces new allegations of torture

Friday, May 14
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington, The Independent

The US yesterday came under fierce new criticism, both at home and from international human rights groups, for its treatment of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

In its latest report to the US government, the International Committee of the Red Cross has again complained abut conditions at Guantanamo Bay, where some 600 people, most captured in Afghanistan, have been held for two years or more in total isolation, without charges and access to lawyers.

No details were made public about the new document, which follows another report, leaked last week, describing as "tantamount to torture" some of the techniques applied to prisoners in US-run jails in Iraq. But both Pentagon and ICRC officials said the language was critical of the US authorities.

In Geneva, a Red Cross spokesman confirmed yesterday that concerns dating back to last year about conditions at Guantanamo Bay had still not been properly addressed.

more -
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=521076

Posted by: Bastard Son's Of Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 07:45 AM

>>Bastard Son's Of Fishgrease

LOL! ha ha ha ha

That has to be one of the funniest nicks here, outside of Fishgrease itself.

Posted by: jerry brown at May 15, 2004 08:04 AM

Good morning to all

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28215-2004May14.html

I am getting me a folding chair and am going to stay all day under the mulberry next to the gas station down the road, and look at all the stupid red necks filling up the pick ups. Yes, it is going to be fun checking out the Nascar dads too.

Posted by: Corto at May 15, 2004 08:43 AM

The Buck Stops … Where?
Stop blaming your henchmen, Mr. President.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2100549/

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:32 AM

threat color tinfoil
berg tape surprise wagged by
usama kaufman

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 09:57 AM

big stick john tiptoes
obedient mockingbird
bush raging drunk dad

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 10:00 AM

flaming circle blog
restoring law and order
value accretion

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 10:16 AM

criminal outrage
corrupt cop attacks green peace
protest concern now

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 10:18 AM

potus george kaufman
nauseous migraine meteor
allergy nose bleed

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 10:22 AM

comments on Friday's show - A long-time fan of live radio I appreciated your "playlet" and was laughing as commercials rolled on and on.

Thanks for comment on Portland radio - as grim and thuggish as, well as every other formula morning zoo-type fart machine.

There are better parts of our village. See my web site http://connectedpdx.blogspot.com/ to get started when you tour up here hopefully soonish.

Posted by: Cicolini at May 15, 2004 10:37 AM

Dear Neal and Jeb;

This is all *your* fault. You should have left at least a half doen more boots in your brother's ass. Your failure to beat him down on a yearly basis from age 13 to age 19 has resulted in our current shitstorm. Thanks for nothing, you rotten useless bastards. You knew your parents were incapable of mimicing humans, it was *your* responsibility to turn George into something viable. You jerks!

Posted by: John Iceknife at May 15, 2004 11:04 AM

Muslims have slaughtered an estimated 600 Christians this week in Nigeria, according to the Christian Association of Nigeria.

The carnage in Kano, in the country's mostly Muslim north, began with a protest in retaliation for Muslim deaths hundreds of miles away in Yelwe, said the British-based monitor of persecution against Christians, Barnabas Fund, the Assist News service reported.

Andrew Ubah, general secretary of the association, told Reuters Thursday the tally was based on reports from church leaders throughout the city. Twelve churches have been burned, he said.

David Emmanuel, a factory worker, told Reuters he saw two truckloads of corpses Wednesday night and counted at least 30 bodies in the street.

Elsewhere, Assist said, correspondents have seen 35 mostly burned and mutilated bodies.

The official police tally of 30 deaths is belied by the overflowing morgue and the constant stream of eyewitness reports from all quarters of the city, Assist said.

Bodies were being taken to undisclosed locations because the main hospital mortuary was full, according to the Red Cross.

"Not all cases are reported, especially cases in which relatives have already buried their dead," said Aminu Inua, a Red Cross official in Kano.

"Hundreds of people were killed," said Christian leader Mark Amani. "Some corpses were burned in wells. Even little children were killed.

"The bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and their bodies burned," he said.

A spokesman for Barnabas Fund said its source reports the killing of several hundred people "when defiant mobs of Muslim youths armed with clubs and machetes and cutlasses rampaged at about 1 a.m. on Thursday despite a police imposed curfew."

"Mobs went from house to house looking for Christian victims and in some cases trapped the occupants inside and torched the houses," the Barnabas spokesman said. "Police have been issued orders to shoot armed rioters on sight."

The group said, 'While Muslims have complained that the police have killed innocent civilians as a result, they do not mean the scores of hacked bodies that lie in the streets and in charred buildings and vehicles according to residents."

Barnabas said locals fear the number of deaths will continue to grow since an order was circulated by Umar Ibrahim Kabo, the most senior Muslim cleric in Kano, for all Christians to leave the area by yesterday.

More than 30,000 residents, mostly Christians, have been driven from their homes in Kano, officials said Thursday, a figure confirmed by Archbishop Josiah Idowu-Fearon in a telephone conversation with Barnabas Fund.

Barnabas Fund has established a fund to help the pastors, their families and their churches.

WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE IN MEDIA? ISNT THIS APPALING? THESE ARE PART OF THE ANIMALS THAT YOU UN-AMERICAN "NUANCED" FREAKS ARE SUPPORTING AGAINST OUR COUNTRY!!!

God Bless America and God Bless our President, George W Bush!!!!

Posted by: celticman at May 15, 2004 11:17 AM

Concentration camps -
"Never again", we proclaimed
what happened to us?

Lord of the Flies -
It seems we've gone quite insane
We've forgotten us

Knee-deep blood rising
Culture of madness and pain
We have condemed us

Criminals took over
And no one opposed their reign
We've abandoned us

Posted by: John Iceknife at May 15, 2004 11:21 AM

Some defense contractor type nut wrote:

"WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE IN MEDIA? ISNT THIS APPALING? THESE ARE PART OF THE ANIMALS THAT YOU UN-AMERICAN "NUANCED" FREAKS ARE SUPPORTING AGAINST OUR COUNTRY!!!"

"These are part of the animals"? If by "nuanced freaks" you mean people who speak and read English as their primary language, then I'm guilty as charged. Let's hazard a guess that you mean that because these attackers are apparently Moslem, that they're directly involved with or connected to Bin Laden. You presuppose that all Moslems or all Moslem extremists know each other and support each other. That's an irrational assupmtion that is in fact untrue. To assume that all Moslems know each other isn't just goofy, it's racist and irrational.

Where's the media outrage? The media seems to be following the will of the White House, you tell me, what's up? Where's the President's outrage about it? Where's the troop response? Where's our hand in quelling the massacres in Africa for the last three decades?

Democrats and Republicans alike ignore Africa, because they have no resources our multinational corporate masters want (except in South Africa). Normally, the people themselves would have been considered worth saving, but apparently our corporate masters don't consider darkskinned folk to be viable corporate assets.

Better wake up and smell the big stinky fingers, puppet boy. The multinationals are pulling your strings, and you dance real purty.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 11:43 AM

F*ck em!
fight back ever time!
Destroy the concentration camps!!
and the people behind them!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:45 AM

celticman, etc. you better behave yourself on here. This site is logging your posts with your IP number, the nicks you use & more. so if you attempt to do anything to violate your ISP's terms of service and/or distrupt this blog you will be shut down.

That means no really long clogging posts, no cursing impersonations of other posters here and no threats against other people on here.

Fair Warning

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 11:52 AM

Hi Jim,

Just on for a little bit to say Hi. I'll be back in a few hours or tonight.

How are you this morning?
What are you up to today?

Saw some good stuff by secret haiku last night & saw Sam loving it.

Bush looking & sounding like robot today.

Posted by: Sunshine Grease at May 15, 2004 12:34 PM

OH YEAH RIGHT LIKE WE'RE ALL SHAKING IN OUR GALOSHES WE'RE SO AFRAID OF IF YOU WILL USE YOUR LITTLE PP LOG TO SHUT THE TRUE BLUE WHITE CHRISTAIN AMERICAN MEN OF AMERICA DOWN AND !NOT! SO, I DO NOT THINK VERY SO, HA! YOU ARE NOT THE QUEEN OF THE MONKEYS TO TELL EVERYONE WHAT IS SO EVERY TIME! WHY ARE GIRLS SO DARN BOSSY? IT'S A JEWFAGDYKEFAG FAG THING, RIGHT, FAGDYKEJEWFAG? STOP LICKING THAT NIGGER AND ANSWER ME YOU SWARTHY FAGOLEO. DON'T YOU PROTRUDE AND BULGE AT *ME*, *I* AM A WHITE CHRISTIAN MAN, AND I WILL PADDLE THE SATANS RIGH OUT OF YOUR FIRM TONED YOUNG BUTTOCKS OF EVIL, VERY VERY MUCH AND YOU WILL THANK ME FOR IT AND SAY I AM SAVED AND SAVED. JESUS WILL HEAL YOU ONLY BECAUSE I HAVE GIVEN OF MYSELF AND REACHED OUT TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT YOUR AMERICAN PURITY OF AMERICAN ESSENCE! A LITTLE CHEMICAL LIGHT SODOMY NEVER HURT ANYONE, WE USED TO DO IT TO JIMMY AT BOARDING SCHOOL ALL THE TIME, AND HE TURNED OUT OK, HAS A BIG RADIO SHOW AND EVERYTHING, SO SHUT YOUR LIARMOUTHS EVERY TIME YOU MAKE A LIE ABOUT AMERICA, PIGFARTJEWFAGNIGGERLOVERHIPPIEPINKOPUKES! AND POOTFAGS!

STOP SENDING PANTIES TO JOHN ASHCROFT!!!

Posted by: Patrioterer at May 15, 2004 12:38 PM

ey gppr

need some grease! old joints creakin & poppin!
just playing with the puppers and a little
model airplane fun in the afternoon!
see they're sneaking in WMD in faux red cross containers to iraq.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:40 PM

patrioteeer
u ol snort
gd mrnin u

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:42 PM

Thanks for the warning but, although I have used a few different nicks on here, you will find that alot of the ones attributed to me arent me at all.
Sometimes I do post long replies, but my cursing and abusing others has been extremely minimal if at all.here is a list of every nic ive used excluding no name post;

Bo_Knows_More
celticman
Coulter_Celtic
Coulter_Idol
Coulter_Idol_Troll
ex-democrat
gOgO_Gadget
Rich_neocon(im no where near rich by the way)
and one impersonation of the honorable Nobody

all others were just assumed to be me...thanks for the warning but im sure i would survive if i couldnt post here.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:50 PM

Patrioterer & your other nicks. The same Warning applys to you & any other nicks you use.

Your tactics are well known so Knock It Off.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:50 PM

My visiting family (including uber-Republican Dad) is out of the house right now. I'm using the time to work on the Peace Pretzel section of our Cafe Press store. I *think* I've made all the designs I have available in the white t-shirt, but I can put the designs on other products if people ask, or when I get to it.

Click my name to see our subversive anti-Bush, pro-America gear.

Posted by: Renee in Ohio at May 15, 2004 12:52 PM

Big Sister is watching me, real cloak and dagger stuff mystery-cop

Posted by: celticman at May 15, 2004 12:54 PM

I'm not the site admin or a regular aar person but I do know that the blog is open & uncensored. Many different opinions are great

Book long posts that clog/distrupt the blog, personal threats against other people here and impersonation of other regular bloggers nicks to try to fool others or mess with them is what is not wanted.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 01:13 PM

May 15th, 2004

More bad news for Air America

Air America, the tottering monument to liberal hubris in the talk radio industry, may be about to change hands again, according to the Chicago Tribune. Its internal state of chaos is so great that employees, who had the cost of health insurance coverage deducted from their paychecks, were apparently never enrolled in a health insurance plan.

This must certainly be an oversight, rather than fraud. The devotion of liberals to health care coverage for all is so well-known that it is inconceivable that this could be deliberate. Incompetence, not criminality, must be at work.

Major hat-tip to Michael Nadler, who points out that while intent is critical to asessing criminality in a case like Air America's failure to pay for health insurance, if Air America also neglected to pay the I.R.S. the withholding taxes it deducted from employees' paychecks, as they did with health insurance, they would be "toast."

Having lost its two most important affiliate stations, bounced paychecks, laid off staff, closed advertising sales offices, and fired its two top officers, not to mention putting out an embarrassingly tedious and sophomoric programming product, the company may now return to the hands of its two original founders, Democrat donors Sheldon and Anita Drobny.

As a privately-held company, the public may never learn the details of the ownership odyssey which saw at least two changes in majority control after the Drobnys unloaded their controlling block of shares. According to the Tribune’s source, the Drobnys have an outside investor’s money to work with in their negotiations to re-assume control.

Strangely enough, the left-leaning press outlets like the New York Times, which devoted enormous attention to Air America when it was a pending venture, are curiously uninterested in the troubles being experienced in the actual operation of the business. Usually, liberal journalists take delight in business scandals. Imagine the headlines if an Enron or Halliburton pocketed employees’ health insurance deductions without actually covering them with health insurance!

Posted by Thomas 05 14 04

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 01:25 PM

Patrioterer & your other nicks. The same Warning applys to you & any other nicks you use.

Your tactics are well known so Knock It Off.
Posted by: at May 15, 2004 12:50 PM""""

Patrioterer bein satirical
pretendidn to be flamer
flaming w/ ridiculous
nagz and complaints
comic relief!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:25 PM

Air America, the tottering monument to liberal hubris in the talk radio industry."""

beauty opening line!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:27 PM

The prisoner torture has now been contained to a "few bad apples" in the Reserves in Abu Ghraib. There are more allegations now being made by two Britons from Guantanamo Bay with the same interrogation techniques. They are not being covered here in a scandal containment attempt. I have been following these American atrocities since the uprising at the Mazar-i-Sharif prison in Afghanistan, and it seems that torture, particularly sexual humiliation, has been policy. Here are 4 links for a breaking story which may be censored here that tell more about America's treatment of prisoners:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1216645,00.html

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/13/gitmo.detainees.abuse/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3713111.stm

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2004/s1108077.htm

I would really appreciate it if you can help to end these horrific abuses and shame on us all by helping to get the whole story out.

Thank you, Sam and Janeane

Posted by: Fancypants at May 15, 2004 01:29 PM

cornish moniker
prehistoric axlike tool
mimus polyglottos

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:29 PM

Lovely new design! I say it's a keeper;)

Posted by: Chadwick at May 15, 2004 01:31 PM

Good to hear Jim

Do you have any flying model planes?

There is a related blog that is in test mode. I gave them some feedback on it and wanted you to take a look at it. I'll email you the URL later today or tomorrow.

By the way, did you read the Fishgrease Manifesto? at:

http://fishmanifesto.com

Posted by: Sunshine Grease at May 15, 2004 01:31 PM

laughter follows troll
sounds like black helicopter
big sister reno

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:34 PM

so many hours between shows... what to do, what to do

Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 01:35 PM

cornish moniker
prehistoric axlike tool
mimus polyglottos
Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:29 PM"""""

!!!!!!!!!!! ; )))

Do you have any flying model planes?"""

Basement full! Got one w/ yer name on it

We'll fly it one day!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:35 PM

happy preakness day =)

Posted by: anna at May 15, 2004 01:36 PM

THE FISHGREASE IRAQ MANIFESTO
The best plan for handover and exit
Part 1
"The only Iraqi government"

http://fishmanifesto.com

Some brilliant
thought and effort went into this!
Backyard rennaisance man

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:39 PM

damn jeanine, why did you dye your hair.

Posted by: Benjamin Wise at May 15, 2004 01:39 PM

Best of all possible mornins
to ya Anna! Not that busy
this mornin! Double Xpresso
with Irish dis mornin?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:41 PM

Very delayed reply to:

Stick with five syllables in the final line.

Posted by writ large at May 15, 2004 12:53 AM

....

stoner drug addicts
yelling together again
my family collapse"""

Personal?

Posted by Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 12:53 AM

....

No worries Jim, plenty of yelling in my "fam-ly" (two syllables) but I was just cobbling together fragments of PSA's and ads - actually I think those might have been fake ads (the "no-medicare bracelet" was where I got "collapse" and the stoner family was from another - can't remember the exact one, it was past my bedtime)

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 01:42 PM

Renee in Ohio
(Gives her a big hug)

"My visiting family (including uber-Republican Dad)"

have em get on de blog iffn they willing to wade thru a little brain poop there diamonds in the sun to be found here!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:46 PM

yes please jim =)

working on my third cup right now and reading up on current conditions in maryland - still trying to figure out who to bet on. =)

mornin' everyone and happy saturday

Posted by: anna at May 15, 2004 01:48 PM

Secret Identity Haiku

as u know we have
usually communicated
in loving haiku

I was worried at the Hmmmmmmm

Me glad to sensai
ur presents here, we obtuse
but a lotta fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:51 PM

working on my third cup right now and reading up on current conditions in maryland - still trying to figure out who to bet on. =)"""

Preakness right?

who de remaining choices fer u?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 01:53 PM

FG
jus finished an it a goodun read
KA and TN'z

Got MY computer back from
my comp wizzo! HeeHee!
Barb gets hers back!
pix of B's comp

http://www3.telus.net/Art-Adventures/CosmicBiker/Hotrod%20Computer.jpg

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 02:00 PM

gold, carrots and peas
sun-fishing horse bucks and twists
jim dandy rescue

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 02:00 PM

jingle smarty jones
hocus pocus round the bend
sweet on hog jockey

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 02:03 PM

Perhaps on a lazy Sat. afternoon someone might help to enlighten an fairly old liberal on this new fangled blogging thing. I pretty much get it now after fumbling around in the various AAR blogsites for 2 weeks. However, I'm unsure about the following for starters:

1.On the MR blog, do you move from segment to segment on the hour-then after immediately go to Post Show? I keep seeing comments after segments have ended so I guess it's a choice.

2. Randi's site really confuses me. I'll keep trying. It's so different from the MR blog.

3. The weekends - is there anywhere we can see which shows will be repeated? Also for weekends, do you you generally blog on whichever site is being broadcast on the internet at the time?
ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED:-)

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 02:05 PM

swallow the bible
close to failure on the bush
tell it to sweeney

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 02:07 PM

depends on whether it rains or not. if the track is sloppy, don't bet against smarty.

if it's dry... it becomes more of a toss up. still hedging my bets on that account. i'll bet closer to post time.

but right now, looking at imperialism, lionheart, smarty, and rock hard ten.

Posted by: anna at May 15, 2004 02:10 PM

Atchur back sih fren
Search and rescue, damage control
some one gotta do
it i don't mind a
bit of dirt n sweat
thanks from family

Kisses and hugs from
survivor famblys, tears, grief,
part of de job bud

All life sacred,
love u all
KISS

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 02:11 PM

Many people have expressed the idea that Bush and Kerry are so alike, it makes no difference who we vote for. The implication of this seems to be that voters may as well stick with the devil they know, rather than the devil they don't.

I propose that Air America Radio should help to combat this fallacious image in the following way:

Each talk program should include two suggestions (beginning and end of show) to the audience that they write to their local newspapers, demanding that Kerry and Bush debate regularly and frequently between now and November. Kerry has already suggested this idea, and will probably still be receptive to it.

There are two possible outcomes to such a letter-writing campaign:

1) Bush accepts, engages in regular debates, and gets opportunity after opportunity to show the press, his base, and the world that he really is as inarticulate and mentally bumbling as the Left says he is. Good for Kerry, bad for Bush. (less likely outcome)

2) Bush refuses, and has to keep refusing multiple times after continued demands from voters. Questions regarding his unwillingness to debate will arise, and doubts about his positions and ability v. Kerry will foment. Neutral for Kerry, bad for Bush. (more likely outcome)

Either way, loud and frequent demands for debates from the voting, newspaper-reading public will be bad for Bush. Since this is clearly in line with the stated goals of Air America, you should adopt this plan.

I understand that it may take a few days to implement this idea in all your talk-format programs. That being so, I think you should aim for a Wednesday implementation.

I welcome any feedback from bloggers, Janeane and Sam, and anyone else. Vioxel@austin.rr.com

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 02:11 PM

1) yes, then post show till next show
2)yes
3)not yet, and this has become the unofficial blog for the whole AAR thing

Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 02:11 PM

hey clueless, hope i can help you out.

1. it depends. during the show most of the activity moves from post to post, but it's entirely up to you. and some threads, while mostly abandoned, continue to get traffic after they become "stale". there really isn't a "right" or a "wrong" way to participate in the comments threads. just have at it and have fun. =)

2. make sure you register for an account on randi's site if you want to participate in their message boards. yes, it's a completely different format and a bit trickier than the straightforward blog commenting format we have here.

3. i've never seen a schedule posted other than the static ones on airamericaradio.com.

Posted by: anna at May 15, 2004 02:14 PM

afternoon everybody!

im have my butt handed to me in worlds
most capitalist game!

it not right im work on employ caddys
as 7th column

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 02:18 PM

Thank you so much anna and terry.

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 02:18 PM

it a beautiful day go out and enjour!

sunny jim! im' got the model page! yes!
now i can just virutallly store them ;>

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 02:20 PM

is pimolico still fast?

send knowledge anna!

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 02:22 PM

sunny jim im been enhoying the old magazines
at your site

it twitch some kinda eyemuslce when i see
those magazines

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 02:25 PM

ill be back gotta go mow my doggies

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 02:28 PM

HERE'S BILL SCHER'S (Liberaloasis) VERY HONORABLE AND MOST PROBABLY CORRECT RESPONSE TO MY CRITIQUE OF HIS ARGUMENTS
-------------------------------------------------

Hey Xxxx (my real name) Fishgrease,

I'm happy to expand on my comments. Feel free to post this on the blog.

So going back to Sam's question:

"What if Bush gets up and says 'The Iraqis have asked us to leave, we've done our best shot, we're gonna get out,' Where does that leave Kerry?"

Bush is doing everything he can so the "Iraqis" will only ask us what he wants them to ask us. He is trying to handpick who is the interim government, and handpick who will draft the permanent Constitution (and of course handpick the permanent govt). They don't have as much control over this situation as they would like, or as they expected to. But the government with the money and the military strength always has cards to play.

Of course, if Bush really wanted the "Iraqis" to ask us leave, for electoral purposes, he would. Why won't he?

I already offered the main reason, it defeats the purpose of having the war in the first place.

To abruptly leave, without installing a US-friendly government first, that would allow US military bases in Iraq (they can't fully expand their influence in the region without such a permanent presence, and they pulled up stakes in politically sensitive Saudi Arabia after 10+ years because of the opportunity of Iraq) -- not only destroys the Pax Americana plan, but also runs the risk of a decidedly anti-American govt, an Iran-Iraq Shiite alliance, civil war in Iraq, possible breeding ground for Al Qaeda, etc.

The consequences are not small, and could make for a pretty unpleasant second term.

Outside of a full pull-out, is a partial pull-out, giving the impression of a wind-down, but allows for a post-election build-up. The electoral benefit would be nil here, because US soldiers would still be getting killed up through election day -- while the US would be looking weak, running away -- and it's dead soldiers most of all that makes Iraq an electoral albatross.

But your premise is: so what? Winning comes before everything. Pull-out means winning.

Polls do not show majority support for even a partial pullout, let alone full, despite the high disapproval for Bush's handling of Iraq.

Gallup -- www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/usatodaypolls.htm -- really showed how split things are:

Send more troops: 25%
Keep as is now: 24%
TOTAL MAINTAIN PRESENCE: 49%
Withdraw some: 18%
Withdraw all: 29%
TOTAL WITHDRAW AT LEAST SOME: 47%

Pew -- http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=213 -- asked it differently:

Keep troops in: 53%
Bring troops home: 42%

(Granted, in both cases, withdrawl is moving up. Things get really messy for Bush if the streams cross.)

Now that doesn't automatically mean a pullout can't work politcally. If it worked -- no more dead soldiers and a stable Iraq -- that the previous skepticism wouldn't matter.

(Where would that leave Kerry? To fight Bush on the economy, where Kerry still holds a big edge, despite the recent job numbers)

But if it didn't work, and Iraq spiraled out of control, that would be complete disaster for Bush. He would have said he wouldn't cut and run, and would leave a free Iraq, and he didn't. It's "read my lips, no new taxes" all over again. The ultimate flip-flop.

(Where would that leave Kerry? To utterly hammer him for playing politics with our security.)

The counter-argument here is that a messy Iraq without dead US soldiers is better for Bush than with. That's probably true, but better enough to win? At this point, I don't think so. He's bet too many chips on a "free Iraq".

If rhetoric was scaled back -- the expectations lowered to just get Saddam and the WMD and get out -- from the get-go, then he could have gotten away with (but again, WMD wasn't the point, Pax Americana was. For the policy to succeed, the rhetoric had to eventually match it.)

Simply put, it's nowhere near an electoral gaurantee.

I assume they hoped the June 30 "handover" would have calmed things down enough to do a partial pull-out, maybe still do. But that was always wishful thinking, and now, that scenario is real hard to see.

How's that? -- Bill
------------------------------------------------

Fishgrease here.... I think I'm whupped, kids.
I'll post my response to his response, below.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 02:34 PM

Unique Angle & Funny Story -

*Seducer-In-Chief: George W. Bush*

By Christopher Burke
RAW STORY COLUMNIST

I have told lies in my life that make me squirm when I think of them. The lies this boy would tell a girl about how he felt, late at night through a haze of booze and black light. Watching President Bush answer questions challenging the veracity of his case for invading Iraq has caused those dubious days to come flooding back to me. And it has occurred to me that David Kay is the nosy best friend that girl always seemed to have.

Although since reformed from this method of getting what I want from a girl I couldn’t help but marvel at the President’s seduction last year. From the moment he conceived of what he wanted, namely to let him have a guys night out in Baghdad, he was the quintessential seducer.

His girl wasn’t convinced at first. She didn’t quite like his friends. Boy, have I been there. I’ve had to explain away my own Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld’s. She didn’t want him to be gone so long. And the money! How exactly did he think he was going to pay for him and his friends to go on their little trip? And why exactly can’t he just stay home like the French, Germans, Russians and Chinese? If it’s such a great trip why don’t they want to go?

The President had all the right answers, as any natural seducer seems to; ‘Cheney and Rumsfeld aren’t that bad, besides Powell will be their. How much trouble can we get in with ol’ Colin around?’ ‘We won’t be gone long,’‘it won’t cost us anything once all that oil starts flowing.’ And the French and Germans? ‘Huh! Hasn’t she heard? They’re not cool anymore. Everyone’s says so. Besides Micronesia is coming! Doesn’t she know how cool the Micronesians are?’

Full story:

http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/burke/seducer_in_chief_bush.htm

Posted by: Bushgrease at May 15, 2004 02:36 PM

MY (FISHGREASE'S) RESPONSE TO BILL SCHER'S VERY HONORABLE AND MOST PROBABLY CORRECT RESPONSE TO MY CRITIQUE OF HIS ARGUMENTS

~~~ How's that? -- Bill ~~~

Well, in a nutshell, you've dealt my theory some pretty devastating blows, and you still never did use my trick of foul language to do it (particularly devious, that). I have to say that while you ask questions my latest position answers, you've won the debate, as it were -- meaning there's a greater chance you're correct about what will happen. I'm never happy about losing a debate, but considering I'm a Democrat, I can live with this one. If there is such a Bush plan in the works, we're exposing it to some extent. That's what makes it fun. Hell, probably funny!

Let's re-argue some points...

~~~ Bush is doing everything he can so the "Iraqis" will only ask us what he wants them to ask us. ~~~

Perfect situation to implement the plan I outlined. Bush has them ask us to leave, has them ask us to come back. If he couldn't control the interim government, it wouldn't work at all. You say Bush hand picks the interim government. I actually think there's a good chance he's going to have to accept guys hand chosen by Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. On that one point, if I'm right, your position gains credibility, if you're right mine does. That follows with the next point so keep the logic twisted that way. I know that's silly but no more so than the logic that got us into Iraq in the first place. We're talking about Bush.

~~~ But the government with the money and the military strength always has cards to play. ~~~

Good point. Thank you. Anybody arguing against that with regard to the Bush bunch is an idiot. It defines them.

~~~ Outside of a full pull-out, is a partial pull-out, giving the impression of a wind-down, but allows for a post-election build-up. The electoral benefit would be nil here, because US soldiers would still be getting killed up through election day -- while the US would be
looking weak, running away -- and it's dead soldiers most of all that makes Iraq an electoral albatross. ~~~

Here's where I think you may have missed my description of the "Election Cocoons". No dead American soldiers in August, September and October. Perhaps you didn't miss this, but just thought it weak. Touche' It is. I quote it here.

"The same Interim Government which asks Bush to leave... can ask him to return sometime between early November (Bush re-elected) and the Iraqi "Democratic" elections in January '05. Again, Sam and Janeane are correct that it would not be a real withdrawal. Upon being "asked" to leave, Bush would pull our troops and equipment back into heavily fortified and guarded areas... what I'm calling "Election Cocoons". Then, he would give our troops a much deserved trip home and a chance to father their prospective offspring and rest. He would rotate the small 20,000 or so troops needed to guard the cocoons."

Two problems with my position here.

1) Configuring the stored war goods such that they are protected without losing any soldiers guarding them. The only place really defendable against mortars and rockets is out in the middle of the desert -- and if you're going to do that, Kuwait is a better option.

2) The term, "Election Cocoons". How can anybody take that seriously? Well it IS perfectly descriptive. I actually tried to think what Bush and Rove would call it. So, if it sounds goofy, consider that mind set.

I'll begin to close here, primarily because what I'm describing just keeps getting closer to that fringe of believability. I've always thought it was so "out there" that it could only happen in a single case:

Bush sees it as his last move before checkmate. I'm beginning to doubt he would ever get there. Still, if he stays in the low 40s approval percentage up until and after the Democratic primary... there it is.

Bill, thanks for responding. You've been an honorable opponent for debate and indeed, I believe you've won. I do think we'll all be watching the news for signs the Bush Administration might be setting us up for the Fishgrease Prophesy. After all, that's fun. With Bush and co., its ALWAYS been funny.

Xxxx (my real name) aka Fishgrease

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 02:41 PM

1.On the MR blog, do you move from segment to segment on the hour-then after immediately go to Post Show? I keep seeing comments after segments have ended so I guess it's a choice.""""""

Most people do, seen where they continue a debate
and then catch up later. Thousands post, won't know how many luk til i can see logs on server set.

2. Randi's site really confuses me. I'll keep trying. It's so different from the MR blog.

That site a 'threaded site' debate goes on for days, months. u can start a thread yerself!

We have blogz of our own some quite good.

Hers a goodun!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.majorityreporter.com/index.php

Majority Reporter
(Paxils site runs on p2pbb i believe, a blog program, beauty)
has this thread,
Deep Thoughts,
which also has threads,
here!

http://www.majorityreporter.com/forum-27.html

# the three posts are graphically stylish and allow someone hip to my 'Key' (writing style)
to find it easily.

" New Moon Cafe " is a thread of mine! Brand new and waiting. A pearl paitently creating protection
from a grain of sand. Register, and i invite u to make the frist post!

People maintain sites that have many archives of all shaow since start! ask fishgrease he had to find show archive so he could have some history of personal recognition! Personal recognition is what this alla bout!

generally blog on whichever site is being broadcast on the internet at the time?

this blog approaching theoretical stream of conciousness speed in the real time aspectz
of the net. throws people for a while till u realize they iz a rythmn to it.

wanna play catch up laff butt off
read whole blog from start day 1

lotta levels to commentz and tonz a not so obvious
games and competition. Pesonas and bickering associated a dynamic balance.

we word players
ravenz
all not what it seems

all done with
smoke and

mirrors|srorrim

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 02:49 PM

I hate like hell to say this, but here goes:

is there anything we liberals can learn from the last days of Viet Nam, strategy wise???

Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 02:50 PM

depends on whether it rains or not. if the track is sloppy, don't bet against smarty."""""

Sattellite overhead real time!
take a look

http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/data/satellite/goes_nam_1070x_100.jpg

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 02:52 PM

Afternoon everyone!

Fishgrease, your whupped some but you'll adjust your bearings & go forward in your adjusted direction. Also time to condition those Fishgrease hats for Janeane & Sam. I get dibs on the 3rd Fishgrease hat though. ;)

"Fishgrease Is More Than A Word, It's A Philosophy"

By the way, I got Sunshine Jim to read your Fishgrease manifesto. He liked the reading.
I think he is a fishgreaser now.

Jim you have a site with info on it? Address?

Good to see the trolls get warning. Looks like they are at bay now. Praying they stay that way with their bad mischief. We all want them to freely speak their uninformed wingnut sheeple propaganda though.

By the way, that earlier post on the AAR situation was very negatively biased and quite incomplete & in error. Payroll was only missed once by a day and it was a very small number of employee's outside of NYC that had a insurance accounting problem in their checks. I notice the poster did not say the source of that AAR bash. I suspect it was a rumor post on a unamerican right wing forum. The latest stories in the Chicago Tribune & Minnesota Star Tribune are different that what that post said.

The restructering of AAR makes them stronger, more flexible and much better poised to continue on long term.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:03 PM

I hate like hell to say this, but here goes:

is there anything we liberals can learn from the last days of Viet Nam, strategy wise???
Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 02:50 PM""""

My opinion?
stop counting on lies to cover up
truth allready out there
what countz is how many hip to it!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:03 PM

By the way, I got Sunshine Jim to read your Fishgrease manifesto. He liked the reading.
I think he is a fishgreaser now.

Watching it unfold in yer minds!
Have alka seltzer ready! Soothing compresses!
Much more poop ahead. There some thingz still under table. Don't seem likely they stay there.

Jim you have a site with info on it? Address?
Here one you'll like

New Moon Cafe
http://www.majorityreporter.com/ftopict-12.html

Jim Sofra

(604) 864 9649

call collect if yer poorer den me

24/7 (i can always pull the plug, never have)

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:14 PM

Fishgrease,

I like the fact that you are still thinking and formulating your Manifesto, because good will come of it, and will benefit us. Nothing's perfect in the first writing. Bill's debate will only help to make your Ultimate Manifesto stronger, and I can't wait to see it.

Posted by: cathy in seattle at May 15, 2004 03:20 PM

Jim This is a great funny short story. For some reason I couldn't copy & paste it in here.

See if you can do it please with that dsl

"Rush Limbaugh vows to continue oxycontin use through november elections"

http://halcyondays.info/satire/82.en.html

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:25 PM

http://halcyondays.info/satire/82.en.html

Rush Limbaugh Vows to
Continue Oxycontin Use
Through November Elections
satire
Peter Lee
May 13, 2004
printversion
Right-wing talk show host Rush Limbaugh has promised his listeners he will not swear off the addictive painkiller Oxycontin ?no matter what the consequences? until George W. Bush successfully occupies the White House for a second term.

?It?s going to take every ounce of my energy and intellect?, declared Limbaugh. ?Relaxation, sleep, and sanity must all take a back seat to ensuring that the greatest president of this century gets another four years in office?.

The controversial talk radio superstar brushed aside concerns about the supposedly ?illegal? nature of his Oxycontin use, and urged his listeners to join him in ?keeping the government out of our medicine cabinets?.

?I am in no way condoning the illegal drug use by people who drive into mixed neighborhoods, roll down their windows, and buy impure back-alley poisons from the black, dirty hands of vagrants, pushers, and welfare cheats? stated Limbaugh.

?The medications I will be using are manufactured in clean, gleaming white laboratories by people in white coats working for some of the most respected corporations in America. The freedom to consume these legal medications is one of the precious rights that we?re trying to hold onto and will be fighting for in the next few months.?

He also proposed a novel way to avoid the legal difficulties that accompanied his previous efforts to obtain the painkiller, reportedly through duplicate prescriptions and the assistance of his cleaning lady.

Limbaugh announced the formation of ?Rush?s 100,000 Club?, dedicated to collecting the 100,000 doses of Oxycontin from his loyal listeners he calculates are needed to last through November 2.

Response to his appeal has reportedly been ?overwhelming?.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:27 PM

3 seconds up load
lil slow

my telus site nearly slashdotted

http://www3.telus.net/Art-Adventures/

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:29 PM

Paxil ; )))
site lookin ourageously
good there bud
million tanks!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:36 PM

de be back inna few

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:36 PM

Commentz?

New Moon Cafe
http://www.majorityreporter.com/ftopict-12.html

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:38 PM

Thanks Jim!

You got it all. Funny how it put a number question marks in there with your copy & upload of it.. Probably a commentary on Rush ;)

If someone from Site Administration sees this.
Please Start A New Weekend Thread as this one is well over 500 posts now and getting slow for us on dialup.

Got to do a couple things. I'll be back tonight.
Be lurking for a little bit.

Posted by: Great American Patriot at May 15, 2004 03:41 PM

Got all dat spaghetti sauce left ober
thinkin
"chicken confetti"

Saute in hot olive oil
2 large onions
3 cloves garlic
lil crushed fennel

then lower temp
add cleaned chicken
small amount of water
steam gently til
chicken ez to bone!
(let cool a while
or run under water in colander)

add deboned chicken to pot
as well as sauce
add i small can tomato paste

add ur italian seasoning
1/2 teaspoon sugar
let marry hour or two
very gentle simmer now.

add layer of provalone cheeze and
fresh grated Romano cheeze

Serve over Penne' macaroni
w/ sprinkle of parsley
and a candle!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 03:52 PM

Ahhhh. Time to check in again. Let's see what we have this week. I've been scrolling through your blog pages and see we have had some very interesting guests since my last visit here.

What do you know!?! Atrios and Janeanes father were guests on the show this week! for the goddamn 7th time or some bullshit. Can you people get some real guests? I suppose not. Pathetic indeed.

I also checked comments after my last a couple of weeks ago, and it seems the so called "Majority Reporter" claims i am the same as others posting here, but using a different name. What complete bullshit!

Tell me, what is my IP address, and what are the others? I post here once every one or two weeks, and see no need to use other names. So take your bullshit and show it to someone else that is stupid enough to believe that rubbish.

I am glad to see you little kuffar out there are still enjoying your little show, and the freedom we still have. I highly advise you all educate yourself on the religious beliefs of our enemies in the middle east. From what I can see, most of you have your heads up your asses, but not all. The Berg video this week is a good demonstration of what kind of sub-humans we face. It is not all Islam, it is not all Arabs. It is a death cult coming from Saudi Arabia who believe that those "kuffar" who don't share their beliefs should perish. It is Allah's will.

Take care my fellow kuffar. I see so much hatred on this site. Bush is doing what is right for our well being. I know you don't believe that, and I'm not going to change your mind. I also see most of you with so much hatred, no matter what the man does it is going to be a mistake in your eyes. Think for once, open your eyes, and don't let hatred blind you. We're all Americans, we all think our positioon is what's best for this country, don't let our differences rip us apart.

Posted by: Lil Kuffar at May 15, 2004 03:54 PM

Dear Janeane and Sam,

I posted 4 links at 1:29 PM in this thread about the censoring about Abu Ghraib type torture in Guantanamo. I have found a fifth link:

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0419/fahim2.php

I liked America a lot more before it got "GITMO-ized".

Thank you

Posted by: Fancypants at May 15, 2004 03:56 PM

By the way, Sunshine Jim you are a hoot and a holler. Don't ever change.

Posted by: Lil Kuffar at May 15, 2004 03:57 PM

>>The restructering of AAR makes them stronger, more flexible and much better poised to continue on long term.

meh, to me AAR is getting a little to comfy. They need to get a little 'desperate, end of time abyss, right before the bell, nobody can save yer ass' kinda creative pressure.

They did fix the teeth to tail ratio, so that's good.

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 04:00 PM

ey kuffar

good ta see ya

ya i bin yakkin at em

some beauty soulz ere

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:03 PM

>> What do you know!?! Atrios and Janeanes father were guests on the show this week! for the goddamn 7th time or some bullshit. Can you people get some real guests? I suppose not. Pathetic indeed.<<

Carmine was here? huh?
Atrios was on Wendesday (I think) It was pretty good actually. Some fun and evil stuff was talked about. ... why the whining?

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 04:05 PM

agree competely
Wanda, afternoon!

'Tail' Over 'Teeth'?
Trillions of dollars spent on enhancing corporations' competitive "teeth" have improved competitiveness. But the cost of supporting those investments has grown at a far higher rate, etc... The "tail-to-tooth" ratio is a favorite measure of the Marine Corps etc...........

http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&custid=opera&charset=utf-8&query=teeth+to+tail+ratio

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:07 PM

"is there anything we liberals can learn from the last days of Viet Nam, strategy wise???
Posted by: terry wilke at May 15, 2004 02:50 PM"

If you are talking about what happened in VN then obvious point is:
"We're there now so we have to finish it" is bullshit.
Once it became clear that we were in the wrong place for the wrong reasons the rest was pointless waste of souls, innocent and not.

If your talking about strategy to affect change in USA then:
No point in being more obnoxious than necessary to get noticed. In the 60's we were few and conformity seemed to be worshiped by the masses.
So we marched and yelled and sat-in and threw stuff and more.
Where I was, the local Bank of America branch was burned to the ground... THREE TIMES.

But this time these tactics are not neccessary. In fact counter productive. OK, maybe a little marching.
But the masses are already paying attention. In fact, we are the masses. So tedious, meticulous organization and thorough, consistent information propagation are the essential elements.

One of the reasons Nixon was elected was because he ran as the anti-war candidate, with the secret plan for "Peace with Honor">
It was a lie, but what people wanted to hear. His bunch were good at lieing. Many of them are part of this administration and still doing it.

pld

Ernie

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 04:09 PM

Note to AAR,

need to fix the stance on corporation.
1. corporation is a common human organisation. Fundamentally, it's neither evil nor good.
2. Some corporation does have corrosive effect to society.
3. Some however add something to the system.
4. The question is which coporation is good and which are bad. Can't have a kneejerk, 'all corporation are evil' sort blanket claim. It's too sophomoric. (reality is we all playh part in the corporate game one way or another)
5. Little sucking up an praise to good corporations and corporate practice don't hurt. In fact it should be recognize.
6. The bad one... well... seek them and destroy them.

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 04:11 PM

To Sunshine Jim-
Thanks for taking the time to get me up to speed. It was very helpful. I just can't get enough of y'all!

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 04:13 PM

~~~ Headline Meme for today: Bush seduced and molested a goat.

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 04:16 PM

Yup purty good thinkin there earnie
Wanda wonder brain hammers nail flush
one pop o de framin hammer, as usual
(bystanders try it and bent nails and rosebuds!)

we gotta stay focused on specific individuals
corporate as well as citizenz

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:18 PM

To Sunshine Jim-
Thanks for taking the time to get me up to speed. It was very helpful. I just can't get enough of y'all!
Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 04:13 PM"""

Love u back
wecome to de blog

clueless!
we ain't

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:20 PM

Here is the culmination of the investigative reporting that first caught my eye in December, 2001. This sick abuse of prisoners I have found to be ongoing throughout the "war on terror". This is the story of the execution of prisoners in Afghanistan, just after our first casualties (2 American CIA agents in a fort in Mazar-i-Sharif that was converted into a make-shift prison). We so drastically need a change in leadership, and to ask the world for forgiveness.
The story has a documentary film that was shown in Europe, but not here. I AM SO SICK OF READING ABOUT MY COUNTRY IN EUROPEAN PRESS!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sundayherald.com/25520

Posted by: Fancypants at May 15, 2004 04:22 PM

I've been talking about this for a while now...
It cuts across party lines but yes your instincts are right certain idealogies do draw certain personality types.

Regardless of this fact I would like to point out a few things. I've long experience online and in jobs where my ability to recognize personalitry traits where foremost in my success.

These things cut across party lines. You will find examples on all sides. In many instances the sociopath is completely harmless. When for instance they are trying to blend in with peaceful folk they mimic the idealogy so well that there is little discernable difference.

I believe that there are certain elements to our society coddle the sociopath and others that enable sociopaths to become dangerous. You will find sociopaths in every walk of life but they gravitate to positions of power i.e. church,goverment,military,medicine etc.

Instinctively Liberals see the danger in the idealogy and react to it viscerally but then fail to name it properly. Every Republican is not a sociopath. Every Conservative is not a sociopath. Democrats can be sociopaths. Neocons are almost always sociopaths.

Be wary the names you call the opponent because it's going to harden the loyal conservatives to blindly backing those that claim the name "republican" and don't act conservative.

The Primary Sypmtoms of a Sociopath

Inability to love
Missing or absent sense of morality
Absence of psychic development (their souls seem "static")
Background depression (nihilistic, rather than romantic or "poetic" depression)
Chronic background fear (suspicious of everybody)

Secondary symptoms

Absence of guilt feelings
Absence of any real understanding or insight (often high intelligence, but still little understanding of emotional insight)
Ability to evoke pity (women are often drawn to psychopaths and attempt to "save" them)
Charm (they succeed in bewitching those around them)
Asocial/criminal behaviour
Boredom
Social Climbing (compensates with social success; those who cannot relate through love can only relate through power)

Finally, remember the old adage "the best man to lead is the one that does not want to"

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 04:23 PM

>>3. The weekends - is there anywhere we can see which shows will be repeated? Also for weekends, do you you generally blog on whichever site is being broadcast on the internet at the time?
ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED:-)
Posted by clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 02:05 PM<<

-all blog thread are open, but usually people only use the last one.
-Most of MR site blogger only comment on MR, or hang out to give feedback to Sam/Jeanine and to other listeners. Ony once in a while people comment on other show.

This forum is also active, along with several other sites. (see the FAQ to find archieve. and not there is no way to find out which day will be repeated)
http://evildave.airamericaplace.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=421

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 04:24 PM

1 more hour n i billdin race car w fren
canuckistanian GT
Model plane meet today n tomorrow
Dinner on stove
puppies in turbo mode
slight overcast
perfect for lawn mowin etc,
for Barb
buildin n painting
new comp
what a treat!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:26 PM

N
that probby yer best
or certainly one of yer
better posts on issues

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:33 PM

Jus opened a new folder
AAR quotes'

yerz is #1

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 04:36 PM

McCain and Kerry: The Phantom Menace

What is up with Senator John McCain's odd, mysterious flirtations with Kerry's presidential posse, from across the Senate Republican cloak room and, quite frankly, the "across party lines reciprocations" from the Kerry camp? It's like a modern day West Side Story, with MCcain, the former southwestern POW, a cagey jet, and preppy John Kerry, a shark. Like West Side Story, their choreography is complicated. And it has more than a touch of policial phantom menace.

In other words, why is a Republican senator from a conservative southwestern state making oblique overtures towards the opposition presidential candidiate in an election year? Why are Bush and Kerry fucking with the President?

Robert Novak, always ahead of the curve, offers us this tasty hunk of yellow cake:

"In this winter of Republican discontent, the last thing the Grand Old Party needed last week was Sen. John McCain leaving the door open for him to be John Kerry's Vice Presidential running mate on the Democratic ticket. That opening was tiny, and McCain quickly had it closed with a bang. Nevertheless, the incident was disturbing to knowledgeable Republicans.

"A Kerry-McCain ticket is out of the question, and nobody knows it better than McCain. Then why did he for several hours last Wednesday permit what the Associated Press described as 'a glimmer of hope' for this unlikely combination? It reflects more than the senator's indisputable propensity for mischief-making. At a time when George W. Bush needs help and support, McCain is opposing him on a broad front of issues from tax cuts to global warming."

On ABC's Good Morning America recently, John McCain said, ''John Kerry is a close friend of mine. We have been friends for years. Obviously, I would entertain it.'' Say --- What?!

Then, last week, as if out of the blue, Ben Smith of the salmon colored media bible The Observer wrote in a story that, "A close adviser to Republican Senator John McCain is informally advising Senator John Kerry on his Presidential bid and may go to work for the Democrat's campaign."

Hmmm. There are higher forces at work here. A phantom menace.

The man in question, the Texan John Weaver, was political director to Mr. McCain?s failed 2000 campaign against the President.

So what's going on? One imagines an "impromptu" meeting with the President in the West Wing. Hmmm:

President Bush: May the campaign contributions be with you, my padawan, how are you today?

John McCain: Well, I'm not feeling too welcome with the Republicans, of late. Where's the love?

The President: Really, John, sorry to hear that. What's all this crazy talk I hear about you as Kerry's running mate?

Senator McCain: It's just speculation. I'm trying to put the kibosh on it once and for all, Mr. President.

The President: That's good, John. Patience. Use the Force ... think.

Senator McCain: Sorry, Mr. President.

The President: Here, you dropped this (hands McCain his Republican Party membership card.)

Senator McCain: Thank you, Mr. President.

The President: (fatherly) Next time try not to lose it.

Senator McCain: Thank you, Mr. President

The President: (anxious) This weapon is your life!

Senator McCain: (frustrated) I try, Mr. President.

The President: (dejected) Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the election defeat of me?

Senator McCain: (vehement) Don't say that, Mr. President. You're the closest thing to a leader I have.

The President: (sadly) Then why don't you listen to me?

Senator McCain: (at last ...) I am trying, Mr. President.

And a Preview from our next Corsair episode: McCain meets the dry, stately Kerry in his private campaign bunker, who declares, benignly, to the Arizona Republican, "You don't need Presidential guidance, John. In time, you will learn to trust your feelings. Then, you will be invincible. I have said it many times, you are the most gifted Senator I have ever met."

McCain: Thank you, Mr. Nominee.

Kerry: I see you becoming the greatest of all the Senators, John. Even more powerful Bill Clinton."

to be continued

Posted by: Ron Mwangaguhunga at May 15, 2004 04:39 PM

A map of evil empire. Must see.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pioneers/pioneers_spheres.html

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 04:40 PM

Interesting factoid about CALICO CATS:

They are always FEMALE only.

Every religion demonizes the gods of other religions and the name SATAN is a demonization of the goddess ISHTAR, the Babylonian goddess of light.

So, is Ashcroft's demonization of calico cats just a disguised form of mysogeny?

Posted by: Austin Tom at May 15, 2004 04:42 PM

Now if you consider my last post you should have a better understanding of this post sans the typos that is.

Celticman does not fit the socipath profile as I can not lay a single symptom at his feet. However he defends the right wing with zeal, why?
A true conservative has the same goals as a liberal it's just their strategy that is different (notice that I added the proviso "true").

Conservatives are fearful, protective, often isolationists, think about what the word means. It's through this fear that they have been manipulated, are being manipulated. Most times it's having children that teaches them to let go of their fear. Children make you face the ugliest of fears constantly. Most conservatives like children do grow up.

Now lets look at the sociopath. Sociopaths have no fear of consequences and hence they show a lack of long term planning. Sociopaths can mimic any emotion when they think it will gain them something more often than not appearing totally genuine.

A sociopaths primary drive is to control the enviroment/people around them. Instinctively a sociopath will hide being a sociopath because they recognize it as a way by which they can be controlled as they control others.

Why is Kerry dragging his feet? Why can't Bush understand the consequences?

Socipaths are what makes the Neocon idealogy so dangerous. Socipaths are not conservatives nor are sociopaths liberal because both of these idealogies require feeling on a level that no sociopath can achieve.

Spend the day doing some reading
http://www.geocities.com/lycium7/psychopathy.html

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 04:51 PM

ima back!
pleae hold appause till end!

is it race time yet?

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 05:14 PM

//Socipaths are what makes the Neocon idealogy so dangerous. //

Im never thought of that before
Is there place we can lock em up?

Posted by: HalfEmpty at May 15, 2004 05:16 PM

McCain and Kerry: The Phantom Menace

goodun my precioussssssssssssssss!

gotta go purty soon fer a while, back tonite

Exerpt from my mom
she asked me post
religious POV
url not available
long post warning!!!!

A MELANESIAN REFLECTION

Address delivered by the Rt. Rev?d Dr. Terry Brown, Bishop of Malaita,
Church of the Province of Melanesia, at the Convocation of Trinity College,
University of Toronto,
May 11, 2004.

Honourable Chancellor, Madam Provost, Distinguished Guests, Fellow Graduates
and Friends:

Trinity College, Toronto, and the Church of the Province of Melanesia
(established as the Melanesian Mission), founded within three years of each
other, share a common Catholic tradition. Their founders, John Strachan,
first Bishop of Toronto, and George Augustus Selwyn, first Bishop of New
Zealand, also bear many resemblances. Both struggled against narrow
evangelicalism and espoused (some would say, established) Anglican synodical
government. Selwyn?s establishment of the Melanesian Mission in 1849 and

Strachan?s founding of Trinity College in 1851 both embodied a vision of
holistic Catholic Christianity for the frontiers of their societies. Bishop
Selwyn?s motto for the Melanesian Mission, ?True Religion, Sound Learning,
Useful Industry?, would have been appreciated by Bishop Strachan. I am
greatly honoured to be here this evening as one of a few Trinity graduates
who have experienced and been enriched by both these institutions. So I
begin by bringing you warm greetings from the Archbishop of Melanesia, from
the Church of the Province of Melanesia, from the Diocese of Malaita and
from my Trinity College-graduate colleague also working in the Church of
Melanesia, Brother John Blyth.

However, I do not intend talking about the two institutions or two founding
Bishops this evening. Rather, I want to use imaginatively a social science,
anthropology, which has many of its roots, at least for Melanesia, also in
the Melanesian Mission. Many of the first Anglican missionaries to
Melanesia were also early ethnologists, documenting Melanesian cultures and
languages; one has only to mention names such as Robert Codrington, Arthur
Hopkins and Charles Fox; even secular anthropologists such as W.H.R. Rivers
worked closely with the Mission. But I shall not be talking about these
proto-anthropologists.

Rather, I want to recount the humble advice of an imaginary Melanesian sage,
perhaps an old man, perhaps an old woman, of about 100 years ago. What
would that advice have been to his or her people and, indeed, to us
listening in? And is such advice really archaic and out of date; or is it
still valid today? My imaginary Melanesian sage has ten short pieces of
advice:

1. ?Beware of head-hunters, cannibals and sorcerers.? Melanesia was
violent and in many places still is. We are still a place of martyrdom. We
have just marked the first anniversary of the martyrdom of seven Melanesian
Brothers. But is the rest of the world today much different? In your
ministries (I speak to those graduating), beware of and resist militarists,
militarism, military solutions, violent nationalisms, support of weapons
production, family violence and participation in the destruction of peoples
and cultures; beware of the patenting of genetic materials and the
destruction of native species for financial gain. Beware of bio-piracy.
Rather, seek peace and pursue it.

2. ?Beware of the slave-traders.? During the last half of the nineteenth
century, Melanesia was beset by the indentured labour trade (so-called
?black-birding?) in which many thousands of Melanesians were taken (often
kidnapped) to the sugarcane plantations of Queensland and Fiji, where they
laboured for very cheap wages. But is the situation much different today?
In your ministries, avoid the transnational corporations which oppress those
who labour through seeking ever lower and lower production costs ? the
Nestles, Nikes and McDonalds of this world; be aware of and address issues
such as migrant labour and human trafficking, offering pastoral support to
those far away from home and separated from their families by financial
realities. Seek justice and pursue it.

3. ?Beware of the missionaries.? The missionary movement, even in
Melanesia, had its underside; one has only to visit the cemetery of St.
Barnabas, Norfolk Island, to see the graves of the young Melanesian scholars
who died of pneumonia. The Canadian churches are still reaping the havoc of
the errors of the missionary movement among Canada?s native peoples. But
mission is essential for the church and the words of John Coleridge
Patteson, first Bishop of Melanesia, can hardly be improved upon: ?The
secret of these Islands is to live together as equals. Let the people know
that you are not divided from them but united in Christ?s love.? But many
other missionaries were and are much more problematic. For we the Church,
the Body of Christ, do contemporary missionary movements sent from us or to
us have that much to offer? One thinks of contemporary Christian
fundamentalist groups still hell-bent on the destruction of traditional
cultures and other religions (even other Christian denominations) as
demonic; of the scourge of so-called Christian Zionism, looking forward to,
indeed encouraging, war in the Middle East; of New Puritanism, the
missionary movement of the Diocese of Sydney; of self-righteous renewal
movements; of messianic sectarianism (whether evangelical, catholic or
charismatic) calling itself orthodoxy. Seek and pursue a Christ-like
mission strategy of sensitivity, openness, listening and love.

4. ?Beware of the colonial government.? As colonialism goes, Solomon
Islands colonialism was fairly benign, one of neglect, whereby the churches
were left to develop education and medical work, while the Resident
Commissioner classified butterflies; New Hebridean colonialism was the
opposite, with two colonial governments, Britain and France, in conflict
with the colonized and with each other. In both cases, the Melanesians were
considered to be a dying race. In both cases there was violence, racism and
the institution of a plantation system that separated families and oppressed
labourers. But is there improvement today? In Melanesia today, Indonesia
continues its brutal occupation of West Papua, with the support of Canadian
mining companies; France and the United States continue as Pacific colonial
powers, largely for military purposes. Very broadly, the line from the
enclosure movement to imperialism and colonialism to neo-colonialism to the
New World Order to globalization to the American occupation of Iraq is a
direct one; all speak of the hegemony of the economically powerful over the
weak. Stand with the weak rather than with the powerful. Remember the words
of St. Thomas Aquinas, ?The use of violence to retain superfluous wealth is
? none other than the sin of robbery.? Live a ministry of kenosis, self-
emptying of power and wealth, so that the oppressed and broken may be lifted
up.

All of those have been warnings. Now a bit of positive advice:

5. ?Remember tribe, totem and tabu.? This evening, we are doing precisely
that. In a world of demonic nationalisms and imperialisms, it may seem
strange to speak positively of tribe, totem and tabu. Oceanic cultures,
like many other tribal cultures, are intensely holistic and communal, where
personhood, friendship, marriage, community, identity, morality, faith and
ritual are virtually inseparable ? even today, despite the incursions of
western individualism and attacks of western neo-conservatives.
Individualism runs deep in all of us in the west but in the end it is not
sustaining. People need a personal identity of communion with God and
others beyond their sex, gender, sexual orientation, politics, age and
occupation. (Hence, the considerable growth of Islam, even in the west,
while western Christianity remains crippled by its individualism.) Extended
family, friendship, marriage, church, community, neighbourhood, workplace,
tradition, ritual, play and, indeed, restraint and prudence (tribe, totem
and tabu) all play their part. As Catholic Christians we believe this
communion is ultimately rooted in and nurtured by our participation in the
Holy Eucharist. Shun the lone ranger model, shun the glorification of the
individual alienated soul and rediscover and nurture your personhood as
essentially relational and participatory, reflective of the Holy Trinity.
Let your ministry be one of friendship.

6. ?Marry outside the clan or tribe.? Many Melanesian cultures are
exogamous, where there is a tradition of taking a wife or husband from the
?other?, perhaps from some place far away, to build relationships with
potential or even real enemies. Such arrangements are a kind of check on
the potential idolatry of tribe, totem and tabu. They also help tribes and
persons to continue to reach out and develop and not to become ingrown.
What of our relations of friendship and intimacy? Seek relationships of
friendship and intimacy with the stranger, the other, the shadow, the
broken, indeed, the enemy, potential or real. Scripture counsels us to love
our enemies, not just our friends.

7. ?Touch and be touched.? To risk a generalization, Melanesians establish
relationships through touch; North Americans and Europeans often establish
relationships through boundaries and private space. The latter?s ever-
increasing suspicion of touch (indeed of all the senses except sight and
sound, which can be exercised at a distance) is almost Manichean.
Melanesian patterns of touch, of course, are part of the understanding of
the person as essentially relational and corporate. When, as in Melanesia,
the individual rather than the community is the anomaly (where ?one is a
fraction of two?, to quote Maurice Leenhardt?s classic study of Melanesian
personhood, Do Kamo), touching another is not much different from touching
oneself. Appropriate boundaries are important and must be observed; no one
wants sexual abuse, for example. (Indeed, Oceania contributed the word
?taboo? to the English language.) But when separation, boundaries,
establishing space and, indeed, self-consciousness and fear become the
primary bases of relationships, intimacy and, indeed, love, become very
difficult indeed. As we withhold physical affection from children, we risk
producing the miserable adult spirituality of a saintly Henri Nouwen. In
spite of the paranoia of western culture, be open to touch. At the centre
of the Eucharist is the Kiss of Peace.

8. ?Remember to tie the rope around your leg when you enter the holy of
holies to offer sacrifice.? I am told that such was the practice in the
area of Malaita where I live. There was always the danger that the custom
priest?s expiatory sacrifice, usually the immolation of a pig, could go
drastically wrong and the priest rather than the pig be immolated. The
priest?s family held onto the rope to pull him back, lest he be taken by the
spirits and never seen again. If we have lost all sense of the power of the
holy, we may be quietly amused. But the advice warns us to recognize that
God?s world and power are not our own nor under our control. It also urges
us to use some caution in the spiritual life, for example, not to be
entirely trusting of spiritual directors, losing our freedom. It warns us
against practices of sacrifice (?self-immolation?) that produce death rather
than life. Perhaps the story is an example of Melanesian ?Reason?. Accept
the support of friends, do not lose your freedom and approach God with the
greatest fear and humility.

I conclude with two final warnings and a comment:

9. ?Beware of the camera, it will steal your soul.? Many years ago, I
visited a neo-custom movement on the Weather Coast of Guadalcanal with a
group of students. Having shed most of our clothes, I proposed taking a
camera into the community?s custom house. Eventually, the request was
accepted but I paid a small compensation for the camera, as it was seen as
disrupting the traditional order of relationships. The camera sees us as
others see us, locked in time and space. With digital technologies,
pictures now also lie. Perhaps a more modern version of this advice is,
?Beware of the media, it can steal your soul?. If we always see ourselves
primarily as others see us, we lose ourselves. Current controversies in the
Anglican Communion are exacerbated, indeed, encouraged, sometimes even
invented, by the media. If we speak to the media before we speak to our
neighbour, we are in trouble. Live your life as God is calling you, and
don?t pay that much attention to the media, though if you can use it for the
Gospel, do so.

10. ?Avoid the ?cargo cult??. This advice is anachronistic, as so-called
cargo cults did not appear in Melanesia until after World War 2, although
the church?s winning of converts through gifts of tobacco and knives
presages them. But many would argue that time in Melanesia is qualitative
and cyclical rather than quantitative and sequential. Not entirely
unreasonably, practitioners of Melanesian cargo cults sought and seek to use
their traditional magic to bring prosperity (?cargo?) to their societies.
While the aim is laudable, the efforts fail and people are left
disillusioned. Westerners have made fun of the extremes of cargo cults,
such as airfields constructed to receive planeloads of cargo. But is the
west much different? Are our expectations of wealth any more reasonable?
Many still see wealth as the primary solution to their problems; others seek
New Age magical solutions, or the lottery, or the casino, or the astrologer
or very magical views of the Holy Spirit and prayer. The ?Gospel of
prosperity? flourishes. Our culture has not entirely bought out of the
capitalist myth, that in accumulation and consumption, we attain salvation.
Avoid the magical solution; take on the hard work of helping to bring into
this broken world the Commonwealth of God.

What do these bits of advice, I hope, contribute towards? Or, perhaps
better, what do they presuppose? I would offer, simply, Catholic
Christianity ? meaningful and intimate inclusion in the Body of Christ,
including a loving relationship with all of humanity and all of creation ?
striving towards the Beatific Vision. That Vision, ultimately beyond our
comprehension, comprehends our lives and ministries and fills us daily with
grace, leading us in ever new and unexpected directions. Let me finish with
a very challenging comment of St. Hugh of Victor, sometimes quoted by
contemporary philosophers: ?The one who finds his or her homeland sweet is
still a tender beginner; the one to whom every soil is as his or her native
one is already strong; but the one is perfect to whom the entire world is as
a foreign land.?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:18 PM

thank u for allowing long post
race car owner hung up
here 4 a while longer.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:22 PM

Now lets look at the personality type that's most dangerous to a sociopath.

This personality would have to first be able to match the sociopath in intelligence and cunning.

This personality must have great emotional sensitivity and great control of the same emotions.

This personality must not be afraid to meet the sociopath in any arena including that of psychosocial manipulation.

This personality must above all else be perceptive and intuitive.

This last bit generally defines those of the liberal persuasion but the first three outline the weak points of those same liberals.

This is not to say that a conservative can not fit this category, many do.

What I'm outlining here is what we all know in our guts. Liberals are most often the targets of sociopaths, that is after the poor and minorites.

Sociopaths must conquer everyone though. They will not end the conquest after us. They will take everyone that might be a danger to them. Eventually they'll take the conservatives after they're done hiding behind them.

What do the conservative want from us? Does anyone even ask that question? Primarily conservatives are defensive meaning they fear. They don't like change, they want what is secure.
How can we promise them security when we act like such weenies everytime we're confronted?

Conservatives need to see that we can be strong. That we will not just wander off from cause to cause like a bunch of complete airheads. They need to know that we will stand besides them.

Fear leads to aggression and its why the Neocon policy looks so good to the conservatives even though they're giving up some prime principles of their party in exchange.

The conservatives need to know that we will not leave them out to dry like Bush 1 did the Iraqis.
They need to know that we still love them even though they're slow thinking dunderheads.

They're blinded by loyalty to party. Blind with fear. They need hope more than anything. That's why they hate the negative...they just need hope.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 05:23 PM

whassuphalfer
ponies?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:23 PM

The conservatives need to know that we will not leave them out to dry like Bush 1 did the Iraqis.
They need to know that we still love them even though they're slow thinking dunderheads.

They're blinded by loyalty to party. Blind with fear. They need hope more than anything. That's why they hate the negative...they just need hope.
Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 05:23 PM"""

that one #2

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:25 PM

conservative...change...peace...growth...

I guess I'll stop my rambling now since I would most definately fill this blog with my incessant need to type.

Know your enemy as you would your friends.

all your eggs in one basket...a moving target is harder to hit...family

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 05:32 PM

Guest suggestion:

Bob Unger, from the Daily Show (back in the 90s with Kilborn)

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 05:34 PM

N
yak at me
hows yer sweetie n kiddoos?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:36 PM

they hate the negative...they just need hope.
Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 05:23 PM"""

I agree that cons need hope--we all need some--but the religi-cons around me rely on their faith more than anything.

Posted by: Hipgnosis in Square States at May 15, 2004 05:44 PM

http://www.thetyee.ca/Life/current/Kokanee.htm

Dad, Me and the Kokanee

Gone is the relationship between fish and men of my father?s era. Is that reason to mourn?

Thu., May. 6, 2004

By Don Gayton

TheTyee.ca

My ageing father sat in a lawn chair on the Nelson city wharf, baitcasting, while I used his father?s bamboo fly rod, a family heirloom made of Tonkin cane. Even though he had a career as an engineer, Dad defined himself as a salmon and steelhead fisherman. His hip-waders would hang in the hall closet, and you could always find bait smelt in the freezer.

Many of the moves our family made when I was growing up were not done for occupational reasons, but in search of better fishing grounds. In each new place, I would learn the names of the local rivers before I learned my address. There was the Stillaguamish and the Dungeness, the Trinity and the Humptulips. I got to know the fogbound salmon towns of Oregon and Washington ? Moclips, Sekiu, and Tillamook ? and I heard the stories of his trips to Prince Rupert and to Kodiak.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:46 PM

"Here was a tangle, one far more complex than any mess I have been able to make with six-pound test: a tangle of fathers and ecology, engineering and fish, regions and people."

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:50 PM

Hipgnosis...religious people can be reached through their religion. I've taken the bible to many of them with good success. Right now I'd point out that they may be siding with the beast.

Family is fine Jim, here's a couple more indictators of the sociopath.

Uses neologisms (makes up strange new words, abbreviations, or sayings)

Impervious to fear, anxiety, depression, or remorse

Freudian slips of the tongue (indicative of mental conflict)

Preconventional morality (thinks things are wrong only because it might lead to punishment or it's not in his/her best interests right now, failure to understand disparities between own behavior and socially acceptable behavior, often in trouble with law)

Is Rummy a sociopath too? Yeap.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 05:52 PM

Knew it!
bin expecting as much
unmasked!!!!
A Alpha Librul in a coservatives mind!

"""Uses neologisms (makes up strange new words, abbreviations, or sayings)

Impervious to fear, anxiety, depression, or remorse """

What the salmon says

Humans do not have dominion over beasts of the field and fishes of the sea, that much I believe. On the other hand, I don?t revere nature over humanity.

I do believe that organisms and ecosystems, like that silver-sided kokanee, have an inherent right to existence. Perhaps that is what separates my father?s experience from mine. He lived in an age when the average person did not have to take a position on the value of nature or judge whether society?s actions were destructive to it.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 05:57 PM

I know all those rivers Jim, I even pronounce them right.

I'm nearest the skykomish (skick oh mish) fishing just ain't what it used to be. Hunting ain't either.

My greatest adventure as a child was running across a she bear without her cub. I learned what food feels like before it's food as I dived under a fall of big alders. Bitch bear grabbed those six trees and humped her back and shook the earth. Took a few swipes and sniffed at me. I walked home some hours later when my legs would work seeing bears in every bush. Although I never screamed my pants were still wet.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:03 PM

neological squigglerz!
preakness up soon! horses an ponies,
great way to spend day

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 06:04 PM

Nobody...Me too, I'm a firm believer in Church/State seperation, but religi-cons don't, can't, or won't make that distinction. However, they do see the folly of the Crusades redux over in the middle east.

btw...love the psychopathological analysis! Cheers

Posted by: Hipgnosis (Square States) at May 15, 2004 06:05 PM

wow I leave the site for awhile and come back to learn im a sociopath...lol...this site is a hoot!!

How about this, i am a citizen of the United States, I love my country. I respect the beliefs of others, and the right to argue them.

I do not associate your beliefs with mental disorders or lack of brains.

I will defend my beliefs regardless of what you think!!

I thought you guys were the ones who were open minded?

Posted by: celticman at May 15, 2004 06:11 PM

There's a lot of evidence out there that our society is literally favoring the sociopaths.

Every successful society in history seems to as well.

A built in check on overpopulation?

What is it that triggers the sociopath boom?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:11 PM

The real issue is not Church/State separation, it's Business/State. I don't buy the crusade theory for a minute. We're in Iraq for oil. Remember, everyone in the Bush admin is an oil exec. (exception: Colin Powell) And we've seen how much his opinion matters.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 06:12 PM

Celticman you moron I said implicitly that you were not a sociopath...dipshit

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:13 PM

assmunch

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:14 PM

Celticman you moron I said implicitly that you were not a sociopath...dipshit

such a lack of originality, you guys are constantly defining repubs as dumb or misguided barbarians. why cant you practice what you preach?
Everyone has right to belief, correct, doesnt that include the right wing as well?

In all actuality your leftist friends are far more resembling of nazi germany than Bush admin has ever been.

Posted by: celticman at May 15, 2004 06:18 PM

"The real issue is not Church/State separation, it's Business/State"

Church and state is an issue but you do bring up a very important point.

How do you separate business from goverment?
How do you keep someone in Goverment from favoring a particular business?
How do you keep money from being a prime mover in a captialistic society?

I just don't know the answer yet...been thinking about it for 30 yrs now...I'll let you know when I figure something out.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:18 PM

Sat w/ Stanley my ol
bicentennial puppy
onna dry piece of cedar
stanley never barked much
he would catch my eye and point
with his beezer to the
intrestin stuff
upwind
.44 magnum dry under coat
across small canyon
Momma bear, cub
eatin blackberries
coupla gallons later
de stretch out onna
'buckskin' log
an start a snooze.

so Stanley looks at me?
(we really after lil buck)
n i 'no' a lil shake
o de head.
Woulda had to break shoulder first
then heart shot
no mama fer de cub eh?
He smiles gives big
WOOOFFAAWOOFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!
Mom an crew
(nother lil guy other side brush)
create subway tunnel
instanter thru Blackberry
thorns 1 inch long!!!!!!!

We sat there together
smiling,
ol huntin buddies
laffin in de rain

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 06:19 PM

I read your valiant attempt to rescue me Nobody and I am touched.

Ill ask Rummy to to throw a couple of barrels of oil your way ok.

or would you prefer the heads of some innocent Iraqi kids as a trophy for our countries conquset.

Posted by: celticman at May 15, 2004 06:21 PM

I defend you as an example of a good conservative and you hack at me without even reading all that I wrote?

What exactly are you trying to gain with this strategy?

You want another enemy? Do you really need one that bad?

Are you just lonely? WTF is your problem?

You read all three of my long posts before you criticize me celticman....

Do it.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:21 PM

Race car time cya later!
love u all

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 06:23 PM

What was the title of the Pernice Bros. song played all the way thru (at least on Sirius) on the 11th??

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 06:25 PM

Enemies?

Sense of humor is very important in life dude.
I have nothing against you, but i dont need anyone to defend me as a good consevative. As a matter of fact i dont care if im a good conservative.I care that i am a good daddy and in saying that my kids are needing me and i must go.

by the way im really not on this site that much, responsibility negates most of my blog time

peace my liberal cohort

Posted by: celticman at May 15, 2004 06:27 PM

The Republicans are pro-development. Develop the world. Sprawling Western-style cities everywhere. Endangered species--ppooh! Kill 'em all! Extinction will make room for more of us humans to populate every corner of the planet.

Next thing you know, all the seas will be depleted of fish, and we'll all be eating genetically modified food--SOYLENT GREEN.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 06:30 PM

peace then Celticman...

This was never conservative vs liberal
This was never republican vs democrat

You might not need my defense but you are a perfect example of my belief.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:31 PM

May,

Kicking out all the lobbyists who infest the hallways of the Senate and Congress might be a start.

But don't break your head over it. There is no perfect system. Socialism and Communism fail economically. Capitailism fails because it puts money above the betterment of mankind.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 06:32 PM

I'm baaack.
Hey, Great American Patriot its not that I got so many, I have a couple cows really really late for calving. Had to go catch.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 06:34 PM

I was just listening to a replay of Friday's Morning Sedition. They were talking about the takeover of the government by the Republican's religiously radical right wing and the similarities between them and the taliban. Then it hit me, the Republicans need to change their name to Retalibans. Huh? You think so?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 06:35 PM

The real issue is not Church/State separation, it's Business/State. I don't buy the crusade theory for a minute. We're in Iraq for oil.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 06:12 PM //

Couldn't agree more, but in discussion with religi-cons, the crusade arguement works. They are blind, deaf, and dumb to the oil thing...

Posted by: Hipgnosis (Square State) at May 15, 2004 06:38 PM

"The Republicans are pro-development."

I'm really not sure that is a conservative aka republican postion.

Premises first...

Conservatism is in essence "conserving"
Conservatism by nature is protective, defensive, needing security.
Conservatives by nature can not be sociopaths
Sociopaths need power to compensate for lack of emotional depth.
Money is power.
Development is money.

Therefore this strategy is not intrinsically republican but instead neocon in nature. Conservatives can however be led by neocons that would use their fear and insecurity to gain their support for this if they promise that it will make them more secure.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:39 PM

You hit it Nobody..The repbublican's, in catering to their most radical element, have lost control of their party. A lifelong republican confessed to me Friday he had voted for Bush in 2000 but could not even consider voting for him again. Too bad the Dems won't listen to us the same way.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 06:43 PM

All systems will fail economically just at different points.

Project capitalism into it's zenith and you get one company running everything....it ends up the very mirror of communism.

The root causes are always in the nature of humanity. Hence my focus on that one part of humanity that tends to do the most harm.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:44 PM

..too well said. Can't argue that at all.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 06:47 PM

Money, get back.
I?m all right jack keep your hands off of my stack.
Money, it?s a hit.
Don?t give me that do goody good bullshit.
I?m in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a lear jet.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 06:49 PM

Cash Rules Everthing Around Me

CREAM

Get the money. Dolla Dolla bill Y'all

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 06:56 PM

Our forefathers knew this and tried to limit the power of goverment.

Sociopaths since the beginning have slowly made goverment more and more powerful. My favorite example is the war powers act.

Bush sits as an imperial president able to take all constitutional rights away from any citizen at a whim.

Conservatives and liberals agree don't they? All that we've ever really argued about was tactics and strategy.

It's going to be up to the republicans to purge their own party. This in itself is a fearful thing since they will lose power for a while.

Ask someone that is scared to drop the knife...

This is perhaps why the Dems are trying to project a centrist platform...Trying to show our loyal opposition that we won't take total advantage of them while they're cleaning house.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 06:58 PM

no good dad for kids
trophy cut innocent heads
negated your need

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 07:07 PM

Why can't Democrats do to the neocons what they've done to the liberals? What do we have to do to make "neocon" a four letter word?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 07:14 PM

AMAZING BUT TRUE:

BUSH CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING ACTIVITIES OUTSOURCED TO INDIA!

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_758377,0008.htm

Posted by: Bob8901 at May 15, 2004 07:15 PM

In nature everything has a purpose...

WTF is the purpose of unemotional power hungry sociopaths?

Think about a world where we roam naked without the aid of technology.

Consider an instance of danger. Only the most self assured, self important, fearless would be the first to stand and defend. Those that are successful gain status among the group.

Again I loop back to why the conservatives are attracted to the sociopath leader. Obviously nature would keep the balance by trading off this behavior with a high mortality rate.

In a comfortable society with little relative danger to the group, mortality rates fall and sociopaths flourish. In order to gain power in such a society you will see them inventing enemies and dangers to fight.

Sociopaths are only inherently bad when they have no purpose, when society doesn't provide them with the dangerous occupations that they are best suited for.

What's the difference if a sociopath saves your life because he thinks it will gain him applause or if someone does it because they love you?

I'm sure that you've obviously thought of a few occupations that sociopaths would be good at. I would add to them perhaps...Explorers, Look at the classic sociopath behaviors of our explorers in history?

What do we have left to exsplore. Where can we send the sociopaths? We haven't got an australia to send them too. We do have a lot of sky...

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 07:26 PM

Ohio,

By choosing Kerry as their candidate, they are doing it. His existance proves that one can be liberal and not be a wimp. In a post 9/11 world the dems can't afford to look soft. When the election race heats up , Kerry can continually point out that none of these Neocon tough guys have ever actually been in a fight.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 07:29 PM

dogmatic new con
social path intervention
absolute dead end

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 07:41 PM

warped radical right
fundamental change withdraw
get out of iraq

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 07:44 PM

treatment or imprisonment...

2% of the population are sociopaths and yet
they are responsible for 40% of the crime.

consider this...
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p020128.html

social conservativism is closing all doors to the unknown. Perhaps a solution lies behind one of those doors. Social conservatism punishes all to protect the few from the few.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 07:46 PM

richard wagging tail
gunner dubya in clap trap
old devil wagon

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 15, 2004 07:55 PM

~~~~ Fishgrease, I like the fact that you are still thinking and formulating your Manifesto, because good will come of it, and will benefit us. Nothing's perfect in the first writing. Bill's debate will only help to make your Ultimate Manifesto stronger, and I can't wait to see it. ~~~~

Cathy, thanks. I don't mind losing a little debate with such a capable and honorable opponent. No shame here at all. Besides, just because the Fishgrease Prohesy is deemed unlikely doesn't mean it isn't right. It can still be fully correct.

I need to differentiate between the FISHGREASE MANIFESTO and the FISHGREASE PROPHESY.

The Manifesto is at http://www.fishmanifesto.com and is a plan for withdrawal from Iraq with honor and a chance for friendship with the Iraqi government -- who I contend will be Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, no matter how many thin coats of democracy paint we wanna put on it.

The Prophesy has existed only in these pages of discussions and of course, on air last night. It is a prediction that George W. Bush will withdraw troops (most troops... no equipment) from Iraq this Summer.

Most dearly, I appreciate all of your interest and support. We're turning into a very nice little community here -- maybe a powerful one... who knows.

Fishgrease

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 15, 2004 08:02 PM

..I'm back. Had to get my workout in...

I wish we could send the sociopaths to Iraq. Wouldn't they be in nirvana there?

I'm sure at first the Repubs were gald to let the sociopaths show them how to put down the liberals, but in their zeal to win at any cost they have infected themselves with a cancer.

The question that bothers me will the cure to kill their cancer kill us all?

(Damn, the level of discussion on this blog is much loftier when the show's not on. [g])

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:09 PM

Kerry can continually point out that none of these Neocon tough guys have ever actually been in a fight.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 07:29 PM //

Right-on, Right-ON!

Posted by: Hipgnosis at May 15, 2004 08:19 PM

..but the bastards will lie to negate Kerry's military record. What's an effective way to nail the chicken(shit)hawk bastards?

Obviously Kerry has to do it.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:20 PM

Fish,

Here's some ammo for your prophesy with which I agree.
Since the uprisings and torturegate, the stock market has tanked. It is down more than five percent for the year. Which doesn't seem like much, but in dollars it amounts to close to a trillion dollars(not million, or billion: trillion). The stock market typically goes up during election years. With the economy turning around somewhat, the only explanation for the drop is uncertainty over the situation in Iraq. The business community, vis a vis our elected official's benefactors, are not going to tolerate this for long. They'll get in the ears of congressmen and senators, both dem and repub, and pressure them to end this debacle.

It's probably happening already.

(I confess. I'm a closet Capitalist)

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 08:28 PM

Kerry comes on stronger as time goes by. He is a cautious campaigner. He will start turning up the heat next month...bet on that. A lot of his strategy is determined by what Bush does...just can't go out on the limb that will be sure to be cut off by their camp.

When Bush digs his hole deep enough Kerry will start shoveling it on top of him.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:28 PM

cj ohio

//the bastards will lie to negate Kerry's military record//

Yeah, one whopper says Kerry shot himself to get his 3rd Purple Heart. I heard it from a Korean War vet. Talk about dishonoring veterans!

Posted by: Hipgnosis (Square States) at May 15, 2004 08:30 PM

Hi I'm a new member today.

Posted by: Beryl in Santa Cruz CA at May 15, 2004 08:32 PM

I agree, that the more he hangs back, the more he seems to gain. It's almost a sure bet the Bush regime is approaching self-destruct mode.

I think the pundits are wrong in saying he's in trouble. They are just pissed he's not giving them anything sensationalistic to talk about.

I think he's in great position considering what he's up against.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:33 PM

So all Kerrys purple hearts are fake...even if they can believe that they're going to have a lot harder time contesting the Silver and Bronze stars...Which btw mean a lot more than purple hearts.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:34 PM

Actually the points been brought up many times.

Bush has worse numbers than any defeated sitting president.

Kerry has better numbers than any challenger to actually go an and defeat a sitting president.

The pundits have obvious political leanings ;)

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:36 PM

Hey Beryl, Nice to have you aboard...

Posted by: Hipgnosis (Square States) at May 15, 2004 08:37 PM

The fact that they would even question something like a military medal speaks volumes about the lenghts they will take to win and affirms your soicopathic explanation. I being a simple middle class liberal perfer to call 'em sick motherfuckers. [g]

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:38 PM

Hi Beryl, jump right in.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:38 PM

Welcome Beryl, pardon my profanity....Don't judge this blog by my lack of decorum.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:41 PM

Where is everyone bloggin' from? I'm in Columbus, OH.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:42 PM

Nearest recognizable city to me would be Seattle

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:44 PM

NY,NY

On the uppereastside of Manhattan, where today I saw three women walking together all talking on cellphones. If they don't want to talk to each other, why are they hanging out together?

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 08:48 PM

I'm a veteran. I find and the attacks against a bonifide war hero get me fightin' mad--even though I'm now dedicated to non-violent solutions.

btw -- as previously stated, the miltary helped turn me liberal!

Posted by: Hipgnosis (Square States) at May 15, 2004 08:49 PM

Well, we've got both ends and the middle covered, I'd say we have a quorum.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:51 PM

I'm a vet too, but I was liberal going in. Four years only made me more so.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:51 PM

World as Will,
buhahahahah herd instinct?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:51 PM

cj:

Hurricane Deck, Missouri. Another square state

Posted by: Hipgnosis at May 15, 2004 08:53 PM

Birds of a feather flock together but the eagle flies alone.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 08:54 PM

Hipgnosis,
Kerry gave the democrat radio address today
http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/001720.html

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 08:54 PM

Hurricane Deck, Missouri

Would that be in the Ozarks??

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 08:57 PM

Was on Kerry's website checking out his bio. He's undefeated in elections. These nervous nelly pundits need to stop second guessing him and let him do his thing.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 08:58 PM

This is unbelievable, Bush outsource his OWN campaign to India. oh gawd.

This after last year they use T-Shirt made in Burma?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_758377,0008.htm

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 09:00 PM

"We have a duty to ensure that our troops are sent into battle only as a last resort. This nation should never go to war because it wants to, but only because it has to." -from Kerry's address today.

I like the cut of his jib..

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:02 PM

Ya I caught that one Wanda...

Heard he outsources his parenting too...

He'd outsource his sex life but no one wants to do Laura...

Bush is the goat...

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:05 PM

Do we really need more homeless people?
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/05/05_520.html

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:08 PM

May,

I'd do Laura Bush, but I draw the line at Barbara Bush.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 09:08 PM

Changing the subject slightly. I've totally signed off on anythign from CNN. The last straw was their story on Rumsfeld's visit to the prison.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/13/iraq.abuse/index.html

All they could say about the questions he took from the audience was:

"Questions from the audience involved subjects such as equipment, reservists and troop strength."

The equipment questions were why they didn't have body armor and why they didn't have shields for the HumVees and why they've been stranded over there for so long. Boy did CNN scrub that down to nothin'.

I wrote them a scathing message saying that I realize now that CNN stands for the ChickenHawk Neocon Network and perhaps they should change to CNN/FOX.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:09 PM

This is an e-mail I sent to Bishop Michael J. Sheridan. It was his "Pastoral Letter" which the right has jumped on and morphed to their own ends. It can be found here;
http://www.diocesecs.org/home%20page/bishopSheridan.htm

Your Excellency,

I, a poor christian and even less worthy Catholic
write you regarding the firestorm of controversy
created in the wake of your "Pastoral Letter" of May
1st, 2004.

Please let me preface my own remarks with an
admission of respect for your vocation and position.
To devote one's life serving God is such noble work to
a calling and sacrifice far beyond the comprehension
of a flawed human such as I that, were the stakes for
the world not so high I would be too intimidated to
write this missive.

My own (doubtless faulty) justifications for falling
away from orgainized religions (though in truth I'd
never felt comfortable in any but a Catholic Church)
are not the church teachings, for surely these are as
pure as man is able, but the social and economic guilt
an attendee whose dress and contributions are often
lacking what lay officers might consider appropriate.
Add to this my realization that organized religion is
not only at the root of the current miasma but
responsible for a majority of the tribalistic violence
of war throughout man's history and an admission that
my own sins, though forgiven in theory, are an anchor
of guilt that frustrates any pretense that I could
possibly claim to walk in Jesus' footsteps.

These politicians are such as I. The American people
are vastly under represented by a system that was
tailored for 13 little colonies and a limited
population. Our forefathers would be appalled to see
280 million American's voices funneled into 100
Senators. And so they aren't. We, the people have
become either an abstraction or an unrespected herd,
distant, needy and unsophisticated to such an
exclusive club of millonares. The physically closer
and monied special interests attempt to convince these
law makers that they speak for vast segments of the
hoi polloi but of course, they don't. But it's easier
and more profitable for Washington to cave in to their
demands and present a facade during election time to
the rest of us.

I know what conscience is. I have difficulty
believing that my fellow man does not recognize in
himself the same moral compass I feel instinctually
when in sin. But I've been wrong before.

Of course one would be dishonest in believing that
his religious background could easily be
compartmentalized and seperated by his actions in any
human dealings and perhaps particularly in politics.
But religion is being abused by the current
administration. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are
engaged in a dance of anger in which no words are
being spoken and too many things assumed about each
other. Honest dialogue on the scale necessary for
understanding is lacking and the moral high ground has
been hijacked in a sort of unmentioned but assumed
crusade.

Your own words, while true have been amplified, not
for their truths but to be used by war mongering and
profiteering hypocrites in an attempt to disuade
Catholics from voting for only the second potential
Catholic President in recent history. Don't doubt for
one minute that were it to their advantage these same
entities would use John Kerry's claim to catholicism
against him.

George Bush has done nothing for christians in his
first three years in office. Only recently in an
attempt so clumsy that I can't believe christians
can't see through it has he dabbled in slowing
abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage and other
concerns that he was always in a position to do
something about. Instead his time has been spent
polarizing a people who had never been so united as on
the night of 9/11 and sent misled patriots to their
deaths in a war which any thinking person should see
as one for profit encased in a veneer of some twisted
ideology that claims a franchise from God himself.

Somehow I feel you were as surprised by the
hysteria surrounding what you perhaps believed was
merely a regular address to your parishinors as I was
angry at the messengers who (like that parlor game of
whispering something around a circle to see how
different it is at its end) used your message to
further their own agenda. And while you also doubtless
were pleased that your message reached well beyond its
usual sphere of influence please know that the message
itself has been lost in a path purposely corrupted.

I've seen your words twisted so that Kerry himself
was named (and even attributed to the Pope himself)
and while you did aim your words at him in obvious
fashion I wonder wether in hindsight you would have
denounced the insane scourge of war that the current
administration has us steeped in. It would have been
honest in a more comprehensive way and perhaps then
not trumpeted for political means.

Perhaps this will be viewed as a minor annoyance, or
maybe you've reached the same conclusion that you have
been used, unwittingly by the same people who think
nothing of lying to foment war, that are so swift to
condone the expenditure of several hundred billions of
dollars to destruction and death in a world so weary
in its poverty, hunger and disease.

It's a sad state of affairs when one is confronted
with choosing the "lesser of two evils" for political
leadership. It seems that has been the case for many
elections now. And while I realize the unprecedented
disclosure about any public official is a fairly
modern device I also know all faults are amplified and
increasingly exaggerated to suit the purpose of those
who "spin" and see no sin in it. But it is lying and
we know this a sin.

I pray along with you for clarification and light in
determining political leadership and wonder, should
you seek an audience with the same media so swift in
kidnapping and altering your message would they even
be accessible to you should they suspect it would not
further their own agendas?

Please include in your prayers my four children,
******, ******, ********* and ******* as well as the
future of we all.

Respectfully,
An all too human,

My Real Name

Posted by: Dutch Masters at May 15, 2004 09:13 PM

"I'd do Laura Bush, but I draw the line at Barbara Bush."

What about the twins? I look for them to be the next generation of the Hilton Ho's.

(Ooh, Loudon Wainwright on Laura Flanders.)

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:13 PM

"I'd do Laura Bush, but I draw the line at Barbara Bush."

the pain....no more visuals...owww

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:14 PM

Please don't trouble my beautiful mind with images of naked Barbara Bush!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:16 PM

Seems like the twins may be of a different cloth than the previous bunch...except for the partying that is.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:16 PM

John Kerry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

However, Kerry's own personal wealth and the Forbes family's ties to the opium trade and drug trafficking in China during the Opium War had led him to take a tough line with drug dealers, during the investigations of Noriega, and his own prosecutions of drug dealers in Massachusetts. But the senator has been criticized for not repudiating his family's drug-dealing roots, nor giving up offshore Forbes family properties and trusts, including access to Naushon Island and an estate in Brittany.

John Kerry, admitted war criminal/Drug Dealer

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:18 PM

It's so ironic. The Bush's put on their Christian airs yet their kids were runnin' around doing the underage drinking thing, and even worse, getting caught. Now what kind of upbringing did these girls have? Never heard any remarks my the right wing media on that, did any of you?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:20 PM

George W. Bush
Admitted Draft Dodger/Coke Snorer

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:22 PM

big stretch of logic there troll...nice try though

Read this
http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/05/15/najaf/index.html

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:23 PM

Intelligence committee and funding controversy
On Feb. 3, 1994, a year after the 1993 terrorist bombing of the World Trade Center, Kerry proposed a deficit reduction bill that cut a wide range of programs, including many opposed by Democratic senators (S. 1826). One provision of this bill rescinded $1 billion from intelligence and froze spending budgets for two major intelligence programs, the National Foreign Intelligence Program and Tactical Intelligence. The bill did not make it to a vote, but the language was later submitted as S. Amdt. 1452 to H.R. 3759. (Text of S. 1826 (PDF file))
On Sept. 29, 1995, Kerry proposed another deficit reduction bill (S. 1290), one provision of which would have cut military intelligence funding by $1.5 billion over five years. The bill could not gather any co-sponsors, which in itself is not unusual. The cuts were $300 million in each of the five years, or approximately 1% of the total military intelligence budget per year.(Text of S. 1290 (PDF file))

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:23 PM

no stretch just copy/paste...check it out for yourself lemming

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:24 PM

"However, Kerry's own personal wealth and the Forbes family's ties to the opium trade and drug trafficking in China during the Opium War had led him to take a tough line with drug dealers, during the investigations of Noriega, and his own prosecutions of drug dealers in Massachusetts."

Drug dealing pisses him off so therefore he's a drug dealer...

Bush walks on two legs therefore he's evil incarnate and wants to eat your babies...

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:26 PM

Intelligence committee and funding controversy

Chump change compared to:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/04/29/cheneys_past_defense_cuts_questioned?mode=PF

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:26 PM

Big stretch of logic there lemming......nice try though

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:29 PM

Haiku to a Troll

coward hides behind
anonymity so he
can shoot at others

Enough for you tonight, go pound your pud to pictures of Ann Coulter. You're dead to me tonight.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:30 PM

so tell me how being pissed off at drug dealers and prosecuting them makes one a drug dealer?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:31 PM

Nobody here's a good 'un:

Bush Analogy
While suturing a laceration on the hand of a 70-year-old Texas rancher whose hand had caught in a gate while working cattle, a doctor and the old man were talking about George W. Bush being in the White House. The old Texan said, "Well, ya know, Bush is a 'post turtle'."

Not knowing what the old man meant, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was. The old man said, "When you're driving down a country road, and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle. Kids and drunks do that kind of thing to turtles sometimes."

The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain, "You know he didn't get there by himself and he can't get down, doesn't belong there, can't get anything done while he's up there, and you just want to help the poor dumb creature get back where he belongs."

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:31 PM

Re: ChickenHawk Neocon Network

cj_ohio Thank you for your inquiry. We will consider your proposal carefully, and should the name change become permanent, we would like to use your voice-over for station identification. Please call my voice mail and scream at the tone...

Posted by: Ted Turner at May 15, 2004 09:32 PM

CJ: I'm in Austin, Texas. Sorry we foisted Bush onto the nation and the world. We had to get him out of the Governer's mansion, but the it hasn't turned out like we hoped.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:35 PM

Dear Ted,

Thanks. I'll be glad to do the voice over but I expect the same rate as James Earl Jones.

Do you mind if I ask Jane out?

Have your people call my people and bite me!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:36 PM

Vioxel,

Don't apologize pardner, I lived in Ft Worth for 4 years and was conceived in Bowie, Tx. Hell, if W had done half of what he promised instead of none, we'd all be out having fun instead of conceiving ways to send him back. Which leads to my next post...

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:38 PM

Ok, for those of you having trouble I'll post the line again.

But the senator has been criticized for not repudiating his family's drug-dealing roots, nor giving up offshore Forbes family properties and trusts, including access to Naushon Island and an estate in Brittany.

My work is done here tonight..better competition on other blogs...

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:39 PM

Got a call from the DNC tonight. I knew they wanted money. I didn't want to give any right now but the solicitor suggested the "Bus Trip to Texas" level which was around $135. I said I'd love to but I just gave and was waiting till next month to donate again. Then he offered the "Half a Bus Trip to Texas" level which would get him to Tennessee. Well that sold me and I even offered to kick is ass the rest of the way home!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:40 PM

Have your people call my people and bite me!//

Brilliant idea there cj

and yes I'm at the Lake of the Ozarks

Posted by: Hipgnosis at May 15, 2004 09:41 PM

Ah, you lucky dog. You been sleepin' at the keyboard again there Hipgnosis?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:43 PM

Everyone: I've seen the neologism "torturegate" bandied about. I think we should abandon that as soon as possible. To my ear, it trivializes the very serious abuses, breakdown of command, etc. that we've observed in our military prisons. Since the -gate suffix has been applied to multiple manufactured scandals (Monicagate, e.g.), it seems like a diminishing of the severity of the crimes and a tacit admission of partisanship to apply it to Abu Ghraib. I think referencing the torture as just that, "The Torture," conveys a greater sense of gravity.

Remember, the language we use is important to the quality of the national conversation.

*Throws $.02 in a jar.*

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:46 PM

better competition on other blogs...

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:39 PM

whaaat's that you say???

Posted by: Hipgnosis at May 15, 2004 09:46 PM

"But the senator has been criticized for not repudiating his family's drug-dealing roots, nor giving up offshore Forbes family properties and trusts, including access to Naushon Island and an estate in Brittany. "

What responsibility do you have for your ancestors?

Wasn't Bushs grandfathers a Nazi supporter?

Why hasn't any Bush every repudiated it or given up the properties gained?

dumbass troll so secure in yuor superiority that you don't even look at what you post.

BTW isn't Forbes a prominent republican?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:49 PM

Florence Oregon
54 yrs 1 million miles
needs new ball joints
and brain cell rebuild
restorable condition
old performance package
intact, rare options
retrofitted w, computerized
electrical system
great sound system
leather seat
roll bar and
fire extinguisher

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 09:49 PM

Hi Bloggers,
Excellent posts. Wish I could stick around. Just popped in to read for a few, but have 9 Russian guests I must drink VOdka with haha.

Keep up the good work bloggers! Love the wisdom!

Posted by: thinksforherself at May 15, 2004 09:49 PM

"The Torture," conveys a greater sense of gravity.

True. It's all in the word. You decide...

a·buse P Pronunciation Key (-byz)
tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es
To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
Obsolete. To deceive or trick.

tor·ture P Pronunciation Key (tôrchr)
n.
Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
Something causing severe pain or anguish.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:50 PM

Re: the Bush twins, they're good folks as far as I can tell. I was at UT concurrently with Jenna for a while. I never met her personally, but those that had never had anything bad to say about her. She's a party girl, but then she's still pretty much a kid, too.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:51 PM

I like hangin' out with you intellectual types, makes me feel reeeel smart! Hic!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:52 PM

OK, I'll cast no more dispersions about the twins. Guess that was pretty callous of me. But it's not like I held up their picture on national TV and called them the Whitehouse dog...

I'm sorry kids. Happy Graduations, even if your Mom and Dad won't come.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:54 PM

Sunshine,

You run on regular or diesel?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:55 PM

Laura on AAR now
great music n talk
sweet smart lady

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 09:55 PM

Laura has good taste. She let me on a couple weeks ago. I was nervous as hell.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:56 PM

Former Texas girl here!

Posted by: thinksforherself at May 15, 2004 09:56 PM

What do you want to bet the twins vote democrat while daddy aint looking?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 09:56 PM

I think abuse is clearly the correct term... no toture in the prison scandal as far as the pictures show...though we will never see them all so I could be wrong

Main Entry: 1abuse
Pronunciation: &-'byüs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French abus, from Latin abusus, from abuti to consume, from ab- + uti to use
1 : a corrupt practice or custom
2 : improper or excessive use or treatment : MISUSE
3 obsolete : a deceitful act : DECEPTION
4 : language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
5 : physical maltreatment

Main Entry: 1tor·ture
Pronunciation: 'tor-ch&r
Function: noun

1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3 : distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 09:56 PM

I saw the Olsen twins in a Starbucks in NYC. One has a considerably larger ass than the other. It's easier to tell them apart from the back than from the front.

Posted by: World as Will at May 15, 2004 09:56 PM

Woo hoo cj! It's always fun to get on with the hosts. I got to talk to Al a couple of days ago. :-)

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:57 PM

She who thinksforherself, welcome and yeehaw!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:57 PM

What day Vioxel? I got 'em all recorded.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 09:58 PM

Nitromenthanol 93%
Castor oil 5%
Lubricin 1%
propylene Oxide 1%

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 09:58 PM

Olsen twins qualify as torture

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 09:58 PM

cj, it was the 12th, when Norm Ornstein was on.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:59 PM

Nitromenthanol 93%
Castor oil 5%
Lubricin 1%
propylene Oxide 1%

Sounds like rocket fuel to me..

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:00 PM

Actually in the abuse scandal there have been people beaten to death amongst other things. The terms albeit dictionary defined are not legally differentiated in that way. Parsing the language isn't gonig to make thigns better.

Abuse even psychological contravenes the Geneva conventions of which we are a signatory to making it "the supreme law of the land" and thus an impeachable offense if it turns out that this treatment was authorized from the top.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:01 PM

Thats dragster fuel folks

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 10:01 PM

The 12th eh, I would have recognized your name. It's hard listening at work, damn job keeps getting in my way! Which hour was it? I'll give it a listen.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:01 PM

heyyyy Thinks 4 herseff

Read em the blog from
when u first posted!
stuff in there jus 4 them!!

(eat when drinkin wit russianz)

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:02 PM

And now more film comes out of prisoners being beaten in gitmo...

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:03 PM

The whole discussion of how to treat prisoners of war is just a cheesy was to rationalize it. War is about killin and taking by force. Any attempts to make it appear civilized are bullshit.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 10:03 PM

Hey, I said I could be wrong... if someone was beaten to death then torture is the term..or maybe homocide

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:04 PM

Can take it up to 3-4%
P Ox
last run in competition
May not have oil inside
yer engine on way home

Smarty won preakness!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:05 PM

sorry, I meant ... " cheesy way to rationalize it."

also, I don't know what got into me ... cursing just slipped

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 10:06 PM

Is there a single prison that this administration is in charge of that doesn't have an abuse scandal attached to it?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:07 PM

Smarty Jones by 12 lengths what a great story! Hope he wins the Belmont and the $5 mil.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:08 PM

I'd forgotten that Bush got in trouble for the way the prisons ran when he was gov. I guess there is some consistency to his madness.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:09 PM

De boyz on now
fun lissinin to em jam n riff
Miss my ol blues buds

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:09 PM

bah last time I raced anything was in a 64 bel air that ate airplane gas...you know...people that own porches will not pay up?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:10 PM

Hold on.
I'm calling AAR.
Need to get someone in
to fire up a new thread.
My scrollbar is overheating and starting to shimmy.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:11 PM

12 lengths?....DAMN

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:11 PM

Martha Diaz
simeon wright
up tonite

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:11 PM

This country has alot more worries than how we run our prisons. Lets focus on helping those that are not criminals.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:12 PM

i second refresh
2 second upload
small stuff
linux
Opera 7.2
adsl

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:14 PM

Lets focus on keeping more from becoming criminals?

There would be plenty to go around if it wasn't getting sucked up into the vacuum of the wealthiest people of this country.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:14 PM

Is there a single prison that this administration is in charge of that doesn't have an abuse scandal attached to it?

Posted by Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:07 PM
--------

The dirty truth is, this happens in all but the most strictly reviewed prisons, and always has. The French didn't storm the Bastille because it was the nearest building.

Check out www.prisonexp.org. It gives an overview of an experiment in prison-like interactions among Stanford U. students in 1971. The gist of it is, inside of two days the student "guards" were abusing the student "prisoners" by spraying them with fire extinguishers, depriving them of clothes and food, bathroom privileges, etc. The planned 2-week experiment was cancelled after 6 days, because the guards were abusing the prisoners in ways the researchers described as "increasingly pornographic."

It's just the way prisons work, no matter who is guarding or being guarded.

Posted by: Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 10:15 PM

I've got Opera too and cable. Speed is really not an issue. You ever use the automatic refresh feature?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:16 PM

You mean like Theresa Kerry who only paid %14 taxes this year?

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:16 PM

HIT f5 TO REFRESH

HIT 'END' key RH SIDE OF KEY BOARD

FOR INSTANT 'JUMP' TO END OF POST!!!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:16 PM

>>You mean like Theresa Kerry who only paid %14 taxes this year?

yeah, everybody wants to be that blow up doll Laura Bush. Does he even do anything with her life?

Hey at least she is low load tax.

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 10:18 PM

HIT f5 TO REFRESH

HIT 'END' key RH SIDE OF KEY BOARD

FOR INSTANT 'JUMP' TO END OF POST!!!!!

Thanks O'MasterOfTheShortcutKeystrokes!!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:18 PM

I've got Opera too and cable. Speed is really not an issue. You ever use the automatic refresh feature?""""

would drive me crazy!

i pluribus linux

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:19 PM

Posted by: Dutch Masters at May 15, 2004 09:13 PM
Dutch-
I thought this was really amazing. Just wanted to let you know.

To the rest of you guys, hope you don't mind my eavesdropping from time to time. I learn so much and besides you guys crack me up. You're such an articulate bunch, I'm afraid to jump in and sound stupid. Oops, too late--already did that

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 10:20 PM

or Cheney or Bush?

That kind of crap solves no problems and you know it.

Old school economics would say that pushing money to the top would increase investment but in the real world they have mroe money than they can spend.

How many corporations pay 0 taxes and then expect therest of us to defend their financial interests from terrorists?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:20 PM

I see the radical name calling wanda has surfaced....have you ever posted without name calling? So sorry for you and your tiny intellect, It is Sat don't try to bring us down to your level on a weekend....lets fight on Mon..thanks

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:21 PM

Corporate welfare needs to end...they can pay their own damned way.

I'm not paying taxes so that someone tat is already rich can get richer...that's total bullshit.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Corporations/Evasion.asp

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:22 PM

Well said Nobody!

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:24 PM

Do you think the fact that corporations were paying real taxes and the wealthy were paying over 50% in the 50's had anything to do with the fact there were so many stay at home moms?

Now they're all at work because the middleclass can subsidize for all the lost tax revenue.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:27 PM

clueless, jump right on in. The water's fine.

There are no dumb questions, only those not asked.

There are no dumb statements, unless they come from neocon-fascist-nationalist-destroyers-of-democracy.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:29 PM

However I will pay taxes...
so that everyone can have affordable health care so that even the poorest amongst us has hope of becoming wealthy
so that goverment can protect those that can not protect themselves
so that there is an even playing field.

I'm a Robin Hood capitalist....sue me

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:30 PM

Distribution of wealth is the key to a successful democracy.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:31 PM

cj ohio,
you forgot corporationist

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:31 PM

I love this one:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-- Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:32 PM

Subsidies really hurt. Corporate and individual.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:33 PM

"you forgot corporationist"

Nobody,

Whaddya expect? I'm the victim of an under-funded public education system!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:33 PM

u know if u gotta lotta
websites up on yer browser
fulla blinky lites n stuff
it'll way slow down a
browser!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:33 PM

Thanks Ohio- see that's what I mean.
~neocon-fascist-nationalist-destroyers-of-democracy~

that's so cool! I would just say dickheads.

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 10:34 PM

yeah, and if you got three audio streams and two porno's goin' it just slows to a crawl!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:35 PM

Nobody,
It will never work because the poor can't seem to drum up the $ for a really effective lobby.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:36 PM

See VB, you fit right in!! I prefer motherfuckers, but to each his/her own..

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:36 PM

Subsidies are a way to maintain desireable infrastructure in a country. It is a method of increasing security. Not that the current farm subsidies are correct (they are skewed towards corporate farming) however, the idea is that it prevents the US from becoming dependent on imports for food. Dependency on imports for critical goods (like oil) are a destabilizing force in the economy. This is why, when we decide not to bomb a country we use "economic sanctions".

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 10:38 PM

M e the arbabbqer of speiling an dum stuff
slip me 5 n u safe hear Bud
You'd have to work at it
to be de stupidheadiest
of us all

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:38 PM

Everyone: I've seen the neologism "torturegate" bandied about. I think we should abandon that as soon as possible.

Posted by Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:46 PM
-------------
Vioxel-I think the neo-cons are using this term to paint this issue as partisan.

The more that they can make this look like a Dem hatchet job, the easier it is for them to dismiss.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 10:39 PM

Heres' the rule...you have a set amount of funds, you go and make money with those funds and at the end of the day I take half.

$1 how much do you make?
$10 how much do you make?
$100 how much do you make?
$1000 how much do you make?
$10000 how much do you make?
$100000 how much do you make?

How many zeros need to be added until you get the idea that at some point it's no drag to your money making ability even to be taxed at 50%

And here's the part they always leave out of the damned equation...Who are these companies trying to sell to? And where are these customers getting their money when you drop wages and raises taxes on the bottom and the middle? Cutting their own throats with the corporate raider mentality. Henry Ford had it right.

top 1% make 440,000,000 I think that's well past teh point where they are undercapitalized.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:40 PM

sunshine jim!

L try 2 be calmer
no good looking 4 trolls
n every corner

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 10:42 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030522/economy_fed_poverty_1.html

uters
U.S. rich-poor gap "unsustainable"-Fed's McDonough
Thursday May 22, 5:32 pm ET

WASHINGTON, May 22 (Reuters) - A large gulf between the rich and poor can tear at a society's fabric, departing New York Federal Reserve Bank President William McDonough said on Thursday, calling U.S. income disparity "unsustainable."

"Certainly rewarding achievement is good, but the disparities in income distribution when taken too far have the potential to distort the economic and social fabric of our societies," McDonough said in a commencement address at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.

In an admonishment to graduates to work toward an improved society, McDonough noted the wide gap between the rich and poor nations of the world.

"Within the United States dispersion in income distribution is less dramatic but still very large and in my view unsustainable in a democracy," he said.

McDonough said while a free market was the best way to raise standards of living, it was still "very much less than perfect" as an economic model.

"The poor among us live a life that is unacceptable to us all," he said.

McDonough, who steps down from the helm of the Fed's most important regional bank next month, touched only fleetingly on the current state of the economy with a quip on labor-market weakness.

"Whether or not you convert this degree into a job offer tomorrow is not the point, although I do recognize that in this job market a job offer would be nice." More important, he said, was to make a positive contribution to society.

McDonough will assume his next job as chairman of a newly minted accounting oversight board on June 11.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:44 PM

Goddamn, for a Nobody, you're a Somebody to me!

Well said.

Think I'm gonna cry.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:44 PM

rico -

I'm still laughing over the spilled Cheetos.

How do I stop?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:45 PM

LOL Sunshine! Okay I'm not that stupid.

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 10:45 PM

sunshine jim!

L try 2 be calmer
no good looking 4 trolls
n every corner
Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 10:42 PM"""

Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Bud!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:46 PM

"It will never work because the poor can't seem to drum up the $ for a really effective lobby."

Look at the break down of small donors to the Kerry campaign...

It's true what you say though...so long as lobbiest are allowed to lobby it's going to be difficult.

There was a recent lobbiest reform put in place...or they were considering it I don't remember. I made a note to look it up...

Both sides of the aisle have been seeing the downside of special interests for a long time now.

Do you have any suggestions?

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:48 PM

"The poor among us live a life that is unacceptable to us all"
Posted by Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:44 PM

..and anytime anyone bitches about it the damn righties cry "Class Warfare".

Know what that's exactly what it's gonna take!

(Damn, I get mighty radical by the time I get to my third pint)

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:48 PM

FYI: highest tax bracket in the 1950s was 92% (1952-1953 based on $400,000 or more income)

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 10:48 PM

http://www.clamormagazine.org/warbuys.html

WHAT A WAR CAN BUY....compiled by Jeremy Ross

The cost of a war in Iraq has been estimated by the Bush administration at:
$75,000,000,000.00. But what does this figure really mean? I've investigated what $75B could buy in 2003.

Here is a short list:

(1) Free health care for 50,000,000 people in the developed nations (based on current per-capita expenditures in Canada)

(2) Adequate basic health care for 5,122,950,820 people in developing nations. (based on estimates by Dr Lieve Fransen in 1997 and with 2% inflation incorporated)

(3) All undergraduate expenses (tuition and living) in America for:
- 2,709,831 private university students (4,104,416 tuition only)
- 5,840,667 4-year public university students (18,377,849 tuition only)
- 7,171,543 community college students (43,227,666 tuition only)
[source]

(4) 375,000,000 "Simputers" (cost-effective computers for developing nations)
[source]

(5) At least a 17% rise in income for each of the 1.2 billion people estimated to be living on less than one dollar a day.

(6) Habitat for Humanity homes for:
1,875,000 families in America
2,939,332 families in Hungary
3,018,959 families in Romania
29,469,548 families in the Democratic Republic of Congo
30,788,177 families in Sri Lanka
32,552,083 families in Papua New Guinea
35,714,286 families in Guatamala
41,829,336 families in India
[source]

(7) 112,570,356,500 cans of Budweiser beer

(8) 441,176,470,600 handgun bullets ($0.17/each)

(9) 75,000 Tomahawk cruise missiles

(10) 37 B-2 Sprit stealth bombers (plus change for 22 F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighters and 10 Joe Millionaires)

(11) 46,875,000,000 gallons of unleaded gasoline (Ohio, March 2003, USA)

(12) 2,616,887,648 barrels of crude oil (March 24, 2003)

(13) Hiring 688,206 top-notch U.N. weapons inspectors for a year.
[source]

SOME OTHER CALCULATIONS FROM CLAMOR READERS: Drop us a line with your calculation and sources.

(14) The average grocery bill (year 2000 data) for 14,540,520 US families.

(15 ) 40,816,326,530 free school lunches under the national school lunch program
[source]

(16) 937,500,000 pairs of white doves [source], 625,104,184 dozen white roses [source] or 2142857142 pieces of dog shit, with shipping to Iraq [source]

(17) If everyone on earth were to have access to safe drinking water and sanitation facilities by 2025, it would cost an additional $75 billion a year. [source]

(18) You could use that $75 Billion to pay Enron's top 200 execs' salary for 5 years! [source]

(19) 750,000,000 Tantric Sex classes yielding the unquantifiable SHOCK and AWE of multiple orgasm. [source]

(20) 3,759,398,496 fifths of wild turkey (washington state, march 2003) or 2,145,923,000 pairs of black carhartts (swain's mercantile, port townsend, washington).

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:51 PM

Do you have any suggestions?
Posted by Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:48 PM

I just heard today, anytime there has been a significant political shift it was the result of grassroot organizations. Regardless of what anyone says, the country is more liberal than conservative. Between MoveOn, ACT and all the others there is sufficient momentum to, not only take back the White House, but to steer the new administration in such direction that the Dems won't get lazy again for a long, long time.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:51 PM

(7) 112,570,356,500 cans of Budweiser beer
Now think about the BBQ Roast that would lube!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 10:52 PM

And during tose times of high taxation we created more millionaires per capita than even the computor revolution.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:53 PM

FYI: highest tax bracket in the 1950s was 92% (1952-1953 based on $400,000 or more income)

Posted by Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 10:48 PM

Thanks for the qualifier. I couldn't remember if it was 72 or 92 so I erred on the side of caution.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:53 PM

Nobody,

Have you ever owned a small business? If you think the taxes stop at the federal level you are crazy.

After the %50 federal taxes; you pay State, County, And City Permit Fees, State, County, and City Payroll Taxes, State, County and City Franchise Fees (even if you only have 1 location) Work force Commision Fees. There are more.I know from personal experience.

Most business owners would gladly turn over %50 percent of revenues.....but in reality %75 is closer to the truth.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 10:55 PM

And during tose times of high taxation we created more millionaires per capita than even the computor revolution.
Posted by Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:53 PM

I accept the fact that capitalism is driven by greed, but I can't accept the fact that human beings go hungry, cold and sick. There's enough to go around, if you just do it correctly.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:55 PM

But I say Conservatives and Liberals aren't as far apart as either and the Neocons.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 10:56 PM

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 3/17/2004

Quote/Claim:
"When you hear people say, we cut individual income taxes, or tax on the rich, really what you ought to put in your mind is these were taxes to help the entrepreneurial class of America. Small businesses benefit." [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
Only 3.7% of small businesses are affected by the top tax rate cuts that made up the bulk of the President's income tax cuts. Most small business owners "would be far more likely to receive no tax reduction whatsoever from the Administration's tax package than to benefit." - CBPP, 5/3/01

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:58 PM

CJ-

I'll have to find that again-that was one hour of high haikuity...

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 10:59 PM

me a ol repub
conservative with
a small c

sorta like Canuckistanian
Red Tory on lsd

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:00 PM

Small business owners would benefit from Property Tax and Personal Property tax cuts most of all. Triplicate permit fees are a freakin joke also.

Posted by: at May 15, 2004 11:00 PM

Yes actually I do own a small business. States make up for what's lost in federal revenue by raising their taxes. Unfortunately the small business can't offshore like the corporations to avoid taxes but maybe if the multinationals wouldn't or couldn't do that shit I wouldn't have to pay more than my fair share?

I would much prefer that every joe on the street had a fistfull of dollars burning a hole in his pocket....my business would be doing a lot better ;D

Not a single millionaire is ever gonna shop at my store...only the poor and middle class and they're broke under these policies.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:01 PM

Who needs Janene and Sam anyway?? This no-show blog is 100x's better than the weekday stuff IMHO.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:01 PM

Something like:

Hannity needs me
I zoom from the trailer park
Ooops dropped my Cheetos

Genius, pure comic genius.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:03 PM

With just the few of us talking it's easier to keep track of the conversation between refreshs...

I rarely post during show...too busy listening and hate the chaos.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:05 PM

This no-show blog is 100x's better than the weekday stuff IMHO.""

uh oh secret out!
now a buncha weirdos
be takin up valuable
blog space w/ bad
pomez, limerikz,
n cookie recipes!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:05 PM

The day when the Bush administration gives a fair tax break to the middleclass and small business community is the day when he says "I'm sorry, I made a mistake and I lied about WMD".

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:06 PM

What is the optimal number? I don't think there is a magic number (for taxing the rich). So much depends on the circumstances. For example, during the great depression, taxes fell because nobody had money to invest and the economy really really needed private enterprise to kick in. On the other hand, during and directly after WWII taxes went up like crazy (partly to pay for the war effort) and stayed high throught the end of the Korean conflict.
Right now, I think we don't need to raise taxes necessarily. If we address the following issues:
1. setting fire to money on a dumb-ass war
2. ignoring our dependency on foreign oil
3. not keeping corporate/political corruption in check
4. over protecting copyrights well beyond their usefulness
5. heaping money into private healthcare companies who end up being actually more expensive than public agencies

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:06 PM

While I'm doing work in the office and in marketing weasel mode, I think one huge thing that could help steer the Democratic party to the more Progressive side of the scales would be for us to take back the rhetoric that the Right pins on our issues.

Universal Health Care becomes Socialized Medicine in Neo-Conspeak, for example.

There needs to be a name for the Dem/Green/Independent/MoveOn.org PAC voter that would vote for a Progressive Democratic candidate that empowers that base and encourages a need to join.

Common Sense Democrat?

Free Democrat?

It's a hard one-I'll keep on thinking about it tonight.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:06 PM

Who needs Janene and Sam anyway??""""

de payin de rent on de computer!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:07 PM

I haven't been able to get in haiku mode lately-maybe not drinking enough.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:08 PM

Well, I'm glad I stumbled on your little secret. You folks are aces in my book. I really don't think I can give the show it's proper attention doing this and listening. My multi-tasker has been on the fritz ever since I crossed over the mid-century mark.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:08 PM

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14129

(collapse of the illusion of our economy )

The Issue That Matters
By Farai Chideya, Pop and Politics
September 18, 2002

The only paper I read with regularity these days is the Wall Street Journal. Although its editorial writers are patently insane, the news and feature writers have recently dedicated themselves to thoughtful pieces on what should be the most important story of our day: the collapse of our economy.

Perhaps I mean the collapse of the illusion of our economy -- a place of endless riches, where everyone's a winner. (Old America: Getting off the plane in Vegas. New America: getting on the plane back home, broke and jacked up.)

Take the Sept. 10 edition of the Journal. On the far left of the page is a feature story on New London, Connecticut. This tired, slumping, working-class town invoked the government prerogative of eminent domain and razed the houses of elderly citizens, so that drug company Pfizer could come in and build a new plant. The article by Lucette Lagnado details how the company was promised millions of dollars in tax breaks and incentives in exchange for building a $300 million research facility, conference center, and hotel. The project hasn't been completed because some empowered and pissed off residents have filed suit.

The completed part of the plant doesn't employ many folks from New London, nor spill revenue over to local businesses. This is the downside of globalization: Demolish locally, employ globally. Many conglomerates these days act like mercenary armies, bringing in the troops they need, and asking little except food, shelter and complete obedience from those who quarter them.

In the center of the same day's Journal is a story titled: "WorldCom Board Will Consider Rescinding Ebbers's Severance."

WorldCom, known to many of us as the company that swallowed MCI long distance, has been in the news for misplacing $7 billion and filing for bankruptcy. This story, by Susan Pullam, Jared Sandberg and Deborah Soloman, details how the former CEO, Bernard J. Ebbers, got a whopper of a good-bye present: a $408 million loan at 2.3 percent interest, plus $1.5 million per year in lifetime salary.

Let me run that by you again: a man who was at the helm of a company that just up and lost $7 billion got a $408 million loan, plus $1.5 million in free cash each year. Let's pretend to spend that money for him:

-- $408 million is the equivalent of: 204,000 fancy laptops, enough to give one to roughly one in 10 graduating high school seniors this year, or 2,000 new homes at their roughly $200,000 average price.

-- $1.5 million a year equals: 345 average yearly payments of TANF (the post-reform welfare); 100 students' full tuition, board and fees at UCLA.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:10 PM

I haven't been able to get in haiku mode lately-maybe not drinking enough.
Posted by Rico at May 15, 2004 11:08 PM

I have to admit it unleashes my muse, but only up to a point. The trick is knowning when to stop and I, sadly, am a slow learner.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:11 PM

Anybody checkin out this french rapper ... damn this is sweet!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:12 PM

I haven't been able to get in haiku mode lately-maybe not drinking enough.
Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:08 PM

case of limerickz n bad quotes imminet!

therapissed recco's bong hit
or poss
ibibble attack of the punzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:13 PM

I'm sticking to Liberal and I don't give a damn what they say about it.

Conservatives and Liberals used to agree and that's my campaign...

I do not wish to be divided from my loyal opposition by a bunch of Neocon bastards.

Most people are a mix of Liberal and Conservative values anyway most don't even know what the other stands for.

Finding a better name isn't going to happen. One on one education is. No more marketting campaigns this can only be healed by people talking to people.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:13 PM

Oh man I hear you Ohio. I'm 53 and I don't know how they do both things at once. I can barely read and listen, much less type and read and listen!

Posted by: clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 11:14 PM

Everyone: I've seen the neologism "torturegate" bandied about. I think we should abandon that as soon as possible.
Posted by Vioxel (vee-OAK-sel) at May 15, 2004 09:46 PM
-------------
Vioxel-I think the neo-cons are using this term to paint this issue as partisan.
The more that they can make this look like a Dem hatchet job, the easier it is for them to dismiss.
Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 10:39 PM
==============================================

That's why I favor:

GoatGate!

p :)

p.s. evn'n all :)

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:14 PM

Anybody checkin out this french rapper ... damn this is sweet!

Posted by Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:12 PM

No, sorry. For me the "C" in rap is silent, but then again I'm a slow learner. [g]

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:14 PM

Who is the French rapper?

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:16 PM

Oh man I hear you Ohio. I'm 53 and I don't know how they do both things at once. I can barely read and listen, much less type and read and listen!
Posted by clueless in VB at May 15, 2004 11:14 PM

Yes, it's better to do just one thing well then several things half-assed! Well, you know it comes with the wisdom you get by default for just livin' this long!!!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:17 PM

There are no dumb questions, only those not asked.
Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 10:29 PM
==============================================

The only stupid question is . . . the one I can't answer!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:17 PM

I'm just a big "Bring the Noise" fan. Music is great, so are Kyle and Chuck D. Chuck D is a busy man, does 2 shows on AAR.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:18 PM

CJ, Rap is umm....square dance calling without the square.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:18 PM

The only stupid question is . . . the one I can't answer!
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:17 PM

May I shamelessly plagerize that one puhleeze?!?!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:18 PM

Nobody, are you kidding on the square??

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:19 PM

French rapper is Oxmo Puccino:
http://www.oxmo.net/main.html

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:19 PM

The only stupid question is . . . the one I can't answer!
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:17 PM
--------------------------------------------

May I shamelessly plagerize that one puhleeze?!?!
Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:18 PM
=============================================

Why not? Lord knows, I did!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:19 PM

Ya this is a cool show...brings back memories of a misspent youth ;P

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:20 PM

OK, educate me.

I listen to Chuck D. on Unfiltered everyday and he's such an enlightened speaker. Then I get my MoveOn CD (the one with the Ad Award) and he does a song that basically repeated motherfucker 100 times. What am I not getting? Am I, gulp, a social dinosaur??

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:22 PM

Nobody-

I understand what you are saying, but I think it is harder to marginalize someone like, say, Kucinich by taking back the language.

In a presidential debate moderated by Larry King, Kucinich started talking about niversal healthcare:

KUCINICH: I agree with my friend John Edwards about we need to do something about poverty. And that's why I'd like you to join me in this proposal to have a universal single-payer, not-for-profit health care system, because that would lift tens of millions of Americans out of poverty. And, Larry...

KING: By the way, Harry Truman proposed that in 1948.

KUCINICH: Well, and you know what? John Conyers and I introduced the bill in this Congress. And that would provide all coverage for everyone, all medically necessary procedures, plus vision care, dental care, mental health care...

KING: In other words, socialism?

KUCINICH: ... long-term care.

(APPLAUSE)

Wait a minute. You know what? What we have now, Larry, what we have now, what we have now, Larry, is predatory capitalism which makes of the American people a cash crop for the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies.

(APPLAUSE)

KING: Well, said.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:22 PM

Hey, Nobody, have you read David Cay Johnston's book, Perfectly Legal?

I'm about 3/4 through it and I'm mad as hell!!!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:23 PM

Thanks, Nik-

I buy world music for a chain of record stores-I need to keep up...

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:23 PM

Why not? Lord knows, I did!!!
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:19 PM

LOL

Well after all, imitation is the highet form of flattery..

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:24 PM

mostly funk some blues tonite
no rap so far
Martha has a beautiful
dreamy soft voice
nice ver soffft lilt

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:24 PM

Not really kidding Cj common roots...but all roots go deeper than first look...consider also that it's evolved into a real forum for poets...

Personally my favorite form is metal...of every flavor

But then as a serious student of the form I've had to go back a long ways to the roots of that...

Everything influences everything else...all things are connected...to deny this is to deny yourself

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:25 PM

There's a MoveOn CD?????

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:25 PM

There's a MoveOn CD?????
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:25 PM

Sorry I meant DVD.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:26 PM

Am I, gulp, a social dinosaur??

Posted by cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:22 PM
---------
cj-I don't think so-Chuck has done better work with Public Enemy

I woould try "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back" or "Fear of A Black Planet"-still hold up 10 years on.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:27 PM

I love the Meters!!

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:27 PM

Nobody,

You're right. I've played music all my life and shouldn't be closed minded. I have heard rap I like. I think my problem was I was tainted by all that gangsta shootemup stuff.

I just have a hard time linking it to Robert Johnson, Mississippi John Hurt and Lightnin' Hopkins.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:29 PM

Gee... how can I explain? hmmm ... Well, first off, language, (particularly swearing) is tool to communicate ideas/concepts. I might also suggest that swaering is a cultural schism that is embraced by urban ares. Since I spent many of my formative years in Newark, I simply find no offense in the word motherfucker. Its like as if somebody just said "gee wilikers" or "gosh darn".

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:30 PM

de good!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:30 PM

not yet read it pete,

Rico how well do you think it would've gone over if perhaps Kucinich stood up and said "ok what's wrong with that word?"

"Socialism means social...are you antisocial Mr.King?"

If you play with words it is seen as evasive. best to just stand up and educate.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:30 PM

Post # 830 or so

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:31 PM

I woould try "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back" or "Fear of A Black Planet"-still hold up 10 years on.

Posted by Rico at May 15, 2004 11:27 PM

Thanks Rico, I will. I know he must have done some great work. To be able sit between Lizz and Rachel take a special kind. Hell I'm amazed he can even get up in time to get to work by 9 a.m.!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:32 PM

There's a MoveOn DVD?????

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:32 PM

The neo-con is about to crack!

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/16/weekinreview/16tier.html?8hpib
But many hawks across the political spectrum are having public second thoughts. The National Review has dismissed the Wilsonian ideal of implanting democracy in Iraq, and has recommended settling for an orderly society with a non-dictatorial government. David Brooks, a New York Times columnist, wrote that America entered Iraq with a "childish fantasy" and is now "a shellshocked hegemon." Journalists like Robert Novak, Max Boot and Thomas Friedman have encouraged Mr. Rumsfeld to resign.

Robert Kagan and William Kristol, two influential hawks at the neoconservative Weekly Standard, warned in last week's issue of the widespread bipartisan view that the war "is already lost or on the verge of being lost." They called for moving up the election in Iraq to Sept. 30 to hasten the transition and distract attention from American mistakes.

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 11:33 PM

Hey, I'm no prude. I've said motherfucker three or four times tonight! It just struck me as strange that he would do that song in that venue.

(Let me out of this discussion before I really fuck up!!)

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:34 PM

cj-I think there is a direct link to Blues-I think guys like Robert Johnson, Charlie Patton, and Son House were the original playas.

Like the song "Boot Hill" from Stevie Ray Vaughn-

"Look up on the wall baby, hand me down my shootin' iron

Call your mother long distance, tell her to expect your body home"

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:35 PM

not yet read it pete,
Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:30 PM
==========================================

It's a MUST!!!

Chapter after chapter of scurilous detail on the tax shelter industry. How to put a $10 investment in the right place to have it make every penny of tax liability vanish! i am SO pissed!!!

EAT THE RICH!!!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:36 PM

Hey guys, been having a heck of a weekend. Just got in from seeing Smarty Jones take the Preakness and planning my trip to NYC for the Belmont. Determined to see a triple crown winner live and in person.

Feeling so good I decided to make like the do-gooders out there who donate the proceeds of one day's sales to some good cause. So here goes, I hammered the race today and managed to catch the trifecta twice - $354.

I'm letting the blog decide who gets it. Straight to John Kerry? Some little guy like Jeff Seeman who is an MRR friend? Move-on to get the anti-bush ads out?

Cast your votes now. I'll pick the winner on Monday.

Very Lucky Maria

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 15, 2004 11:37 PM

when you used the word you were trying to express a certain level of feeling right Cj?

Rico the audience I would aim at are the ones tat can still think. The ones grew up watching commercials all day and are immune. The ones that are fooled by wordplay are already lost to the fringes.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:37 PM

http://www.thetyee.ca/CitizenToolkit/current/Cutting+Edge+Web+Activism.htm

Cutting Edge Web Activism

Five bold experiments pushing Internet power to the next level.

Mon., Mar. 8, 2004

By Katherine Reilly and Mark Surman

Alternet / YES! Magazine

In the quest for global peace and social justice, the Internet and other emerging network technologies provide powerful tools to support our work. But most organizations have not moved beyond email and basic websites -- they haven't yet learned truly strategic uses of these technologies. Put simply, the tools are in our hands, but most of us have not yet decided what to build. Below, we present a glimpse of what the future might hold based on our research on organizations that are out front in their innovative use of these emerging technologies.

OneWorld: A Voice for Civil Society

At first glance, OneWorld.net looks like a straightforward news website focused on civil society issues. It contains compelling and professionally presented articles on HIV/AIDS, sustainable development, human rights, peace, and the digital divide.

Under the hood, however, the London-based OneWorld is a very different kind of site. It is a network of civil society content producers from around the world all working to paint a collective picture of a better world. Almost 100 percent of the content is drawn from the websites of OneWorld's 1,500 partner sites. In creating "the news" for a particular day, OneWorld editors pull the best material from this pool of partner sites, write new headlines and précis, and publish the material to the front page. At a global level, the coverage is in English. Regional coverage in five additional languages is provided by more than 10 regional and country sites.

While most civil society websites tell stories from a single organization's perspective, OneWorld presents the perspective of multiple organizations according to theme. The result is a diversity of opinion and content driven directly by the work and interests of civil society organizations.

Indymedia: Grassroots Open Publishing

Since starting as a single Web site and media production storefront set up for the Seattle WTO protests in 1999, Indymedia has grown to more than 100 sites covering all continents. A single international site collects the best

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:37 PM

He, He. Its really not a serious thing ... I guess my take is that you either feel music or you don't. Just because I can't stand piano concertos doesn't mean they are krappy. It also doesn't mean I lack some secret ability to appreciate music ... its all good. Oh, and as far as metal is concerned ... I'm partial to speed metal (Gang Green, Misfits, etc)

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:38 PM

There's a MoveOn DVD?????
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:32 PM

Yes, and it can be freely copied and distributed. If anyone wants a copy, I'm willing to burn and mail a few. It's got Janene and Moby and shows a lot of the ads.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:38 PM

motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker

said it more times n u ; P))!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:40 PM

Thanks Rico, I will. I know he must have done some great work. To be able sit between Lizz and Rachel take a special kind. Hell I'm amazed he can even get up in time to get to work by 9 a.m.!
Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:32 PM
=============================================

That is a joke, isn't it? Was he late twice last week? Or was it three times? It was two the wek before. They even joked about him being on CP Time.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:40 PM

Look around yourself and count the things there that you've actually seen a commercial for....

Not one thing in my house how about yours?

Initial product offering ads I can see...but this whole long term marketting schema is falling flat on the information overload generation.

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:41 PM

Kill Bill sounds like a scary lookin dude!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:41 PM

clueless in VB,

Thanks

Posted by: Dutch Masters at May 15, 2004 11:41 PM

Nobody-

See, I think of Kucinich describing the present economy as "Preditory Capitalism" actually clarifies the issue for people.

Maybe I'm looking thru rose-colored glasses.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:41 PM

Yes, and it can be freely copied and distributed. If anyone wants a copy, I'm willing to burn and mail a few. It's got Janene and Moby and shows a lot of the ads.
Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:38 PM
================================================

Can it be downloaded? If not, I'd be thilled to get a copy by mail.

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:42 PM

Dusty Springfield!

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:42 PM

So I'm a motherfucker least it wasn't your mother...maybe...I'm pretty sure anyways...erm...ya...that's my story...yeap...move along now nothing to see here

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:43 PM

Hiya Maria!!!!!

I vote for Kerry!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:44 PM

when you used the word you were trying to express a certain level of feeling right Cj?

Posted by Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:37 PM

Yes I was and I understand, or better yet remember, when it comes to music it's all good.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:44 PM

Hey pete, you can get the DVD for a donation to Move-on. Unfortunately I have no way to burn CDs or I'd copy mine for you.

Lucky M

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 15, 2004 11:45 PM

Predatory capitalism as a term has been around for 25 years that I know of....it didn't help against Reagan...

There needs to be some terms that need to be cleaned of bias...only way to do that is educate..

Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:46 PM

>>OK, educate me.
I listen to Chuck D. on Unfiltered everyday and he's such an enlightened speaker. Then I get my MoveOn CD (the one with the Ad Award) and he does a song that basically repeated motherfucker 100 times. What am I not getting? Am I, gulp, a social dinosaur?? <<<

uhm, ChuckD group is Publc enemy. They are the original group that bring rap into public. The early day of rap is not exactly sedate and polite. It describe the collapse of inner city from the Reagan era.

Social dinosour? I think you just miss significant event from the late 80's and early 90's lol. The moveon DVD is just an echo from that era. (the music)

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 11:46 PM

Cast your votes now. I'll pick the winner on Monday.

Very Lucky Maria!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Lucky Maria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Lucky Maria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I say u talk to Smarty Jones
an put it back on Smarty for de cause!
An de we Vote THAT stash!!!!!!!! ; )))

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 15, 2004 11:47 PM

you can get the DVD for a donation to Move-on
Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 15, 2004 11:45 PM
===============================================

Cool. Thanks for the word. I'll go order it. They've shamelessly flogged everything else they have available. Don't know how I missed that one.

I'm about 1/3 through "50 Ways to Love Your Country."

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:48 PM

Can it be downloaded? If not, I'd be thilled to get a copy by mail.
Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:42 PM

I'm sure it's to big to post on my website, I only have 10Mb there. Send an address to cj@cr-johnson.com and I'll get one off snail mail at my earliest convenience..

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:48 PM

OH Sunshine, if it were only that easy I'd be rich. 'sides, we all know Smarty wants it, it's the other 10 nosebaggers I need to speak to. ;)

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 15, 2004 11:48 PM

There are some great, eloquent rappers/rap groups out now that really expand the genre.

Saul Williams, Michael Franti, Kool Keith, and Jurassic 5 are really worth checking out.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:49 PM

Predatory capitalism . . .
Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:46 PM
=============================================

Is that like "Coercive Diplomacy?"

[shudder]

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:50 PM

Predatory capitalism . . .
Posted by: Nobody at May 15, 2004 11:46 PM
=============================================

Is that like "Coercive Diplomacy?"

[shudder]

Posted by petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:50 PM
----------
That's like my first marriage...

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:51 PM

Lucky Maria,

After much deliberation I too vote for Kerry. My reasoning is first we have to get him in then hope for a coup in the 2006 congressional races after the rest of the country sees what Democrats can do when we hold their feet to the fire.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:52 PM

>>Feeling so good I decided to make like the do-gooders out there who donate the proceeds of one day's sales to some good cause. So here goes, I hammered the race today and managed to catch the trifecta twice - $354.

I'm letting the blog decide who gets it. Straight to John Kerry? Some little guy like Jeff Seeman who is an MRR friend? Move-on to get the anti-bush ads out?
Cast your votes now. I'll pick the winner on Monday.
Very Lucky Maria<

$30 to moveon.org since they put out such a cool videos. The rest to Kerry.

Posted by: wanda at May 15, 2004 11:52 PM

. . . I'll get one off snail mail at my earliest convenience..
Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:48 PM
===========================================

I greatly appreciate the offer, cj, but I've been meaning to shoot some $$ MoveOn's direction anyway, so, I might as well get something from them in return. I was thinking tote bag, but . . . LOL

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:52 PM

You're a good man petemoon, just stay away from the swimming pool.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:54 PM

That's like my first marriage...
Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:51 PM
===========================================

ROFL

Too motherfucking funny!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:54 PM

swimming pool?

Posted by: petemoon at May 15, 2004 11:55 PM

Lucky maria-

I'm thinking that it might be most effective going to MoveOn.org.

The Anti-Bush ads in swing states could only help John Kerry.

And for something off the wall, maybe $25 to Pax Christi-it's a Catholic Worker-affiliated group that will be monitoring the Presidential election in Florida at the objection of Governor Jeb.

Posted by: Rico at May 15, 2004 11:55 PM

..bad joke. It was a reference to keith moon. I think they found him in the pool after he OD'd. (He was in The Who, one of those non-rapping groups from back in the day when cj was a little liberal).

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 15, 2004 11:57 PM

>>at the objection of Governor Jeb.

that's all it takes these days to know an organization is a champion of good isn't it? I'll put it on the list Rico. Anything to annoy the Bush cartel.

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 15, 2004 11:58 PM

Pax Christi? Isn't that organization anti-abortion?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:59 PM

Lucky Maria-

Here's a link to their site-cool group.

http://www.paxchristiusa.org/

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:00 AM

Pax Christi? Isn't that organization anti-abortion?

Posted by Nik E Poo at May 15, 2004 11:59 PM
----------
Nik-

It looks like they are-i didn't know that...

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:01 AM

In the interest of full disclosure-

According to our abortion statement:

“Pax Christi USA reaffirms its…Seamless Garment position in support of all life. The consistent ethic of life opposes not only abortion, but also the death penalty, war, the nuclear arms race and anything that threatens life."

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:02 AM

Thanks, cj. Though I've seen The Who, it's only because somebody dragged me to their Quadraphenia tour a few years ago -- I grew up devoted to Musical Comedy and more than a little liberal.

I learned about Keith Moon becuase many people in many forums over the years have mistaken me for him, via my nickname. Didn't actually know that he was dead, let alone the circumstances of his demise. I appreciate the information.

Posted by: petemoon at May 16, 2004 12:03 AM

Damn Rico bringing up tough problems...

How about we restate the problem and look for parallels

Say instead of "socialism" the product is a car and now lets say that car was used by Nazis and has a lot of ugly things associated with it...

Oh yeah...the VW...the peoples car...If it makes economic sense people will drop the association that's uncomfortable automatically...

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:04 AM

Thanks Nik E and Rico, I'm gonna look at their site because it's interesting. Never heard of this group before.

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:04 AM

All life is sacred
not that difficult
any improvement better

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:05 AM

From their link, it doesn't look like they are prone to shootin doctors. Also, there are plenty of ethical people worthy of respect and assistance that ... um ... huh ... are ... well ... I disagree with. Its up to Lucky

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:05 AM

..speaking of 50 Ways to Love Your Country. I've just about finished it but haven't decided what I want to do. I'm tired of sending my little donations. Being in Ohio I know I need to work on getting the right voters to vote but I'm still looking for my niche. I couldn't do the MoveOn/ACT thing last week due to prior committements, but I'm thinking of hitting bars, especially around the OSU campus area and getting folks to register and vote. Anyone have a better idea?

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:05 AM

Hmm . . .

Any of you MoveOn-ers know where on their multiple sites I can find that DVD? I've been poking around MoveOn, MoveOn PAC, MoveOn Voter Fund, and I'm not seeing it. Been to the "Donate" page on all 3 sites as well, and it's not mentioned there. Not seeing a "Search" box either.

Hmm . . .

Posted by: petemoon at May 16, 2004 12:07 AM

From their link, it doesn't look like they are prone to shootin doctors.
---------------
Still can't get away from my first marriage tonight...

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:07 AM

Bread and butter issues....everything is a bread and butter issue...that's how I approach it...couldn't find the right words.

better than the "those are the enemies and we're the good guys approach" promulgated by the other side...

This is what the Democrats used to run with...bread and butter....god I'm a genius sometimes...forgetful and likely to injure myself....hehehehe

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:08 AM

difficult life now
holy calypso ending
for more years jesus

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 16, 2004 12:09 AM

donating to a religious group is so out of fashion for me.

Posted by: wanda at May 16, 2004 12:09 AM

If they are out of the MoveOn DVD's, or the offer no longer stands then you'll have to prove to me you made a donation before I burn you a copy. It's only right, right? [g]

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:10 AM

Nobody-

I do like that-it's a good lead in to the points you want to get across.

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:10 AM

When we hit 1000 posts for this blog, do we get a prize or something? At least a graphic would be nice...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:10 AM

spend the money on activist activities
can make 2000 bumper stickers
250 to 500 posterz

walk around neighborhood
give anybody need help
needs it

find somebody hungry and feed them

take 2 snorty terrierists fer walk!!!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:10 AM

Did anyone catch Susan Jacoby on Bill Moyer's Now last night? What a segment!!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:11 AM

No Bill Moyer, what happened?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:12 AM

christy packs hanger
rusty abortion baby
blessing partial birth

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 16, 2004 12:12 AM

cj - I felt like you and what I decided was to use my own energy. Here's my suggestion: check with your state election board [often they're on-line] and find out what you need to do to legally register people to vote. Some states, anyone can fill in the form and turn it in for you. Some states you actually are supposed to be a notary public.

In Maryland it was easy. I had to go to one of the election offices, fill out a form, go over the instructions and I was done. Took about 5 minutes. I can now, not only register voters, I can register other people to register voters.
They gave me a stack of materials to use.

It was easy to do. I now carry the forms around with me and if I get in a conversation, i ask if the person is registered. If not, I whip it out. [so to speak].

My friends and I also spent a day pounding the pavement. It was kind of fun. It feels satisfying to do it on my own, not take orders from anyone and I can do it whenever I feel the mood strike.

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:13 AM

Thanks Sunshine Jim, I'll take all of those ideas into consideration.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:14 AM

walks with dogs past flowers
Old fruit trees old worker housing
WW2 Claybourne Brick Works

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:14 AM

Thats a great idea Lucky! I'm gonna see if that is possible in my state. thanks!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:15 AM

too elite to remember bread and butter....wheee

Bread and butter tops values...tops fear...tops negativity...tops it all...tops slick packaging...just the facts maam nothing but the facts...pure and simple every issue is bread and butter

bread and butter in every garage...what good is it to worry about terrorists when you can't afford medicine?....bread and butter...with friends like these [corporations,politicians] who needs enemies?...when you're struggling to put bread and butter on the table why should these guys get more money [corporations..etc]

bread and butter...basic of basic family value

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:17 AM

Lucky Maria,

I have pulled that info and we're like MD. I was just gonna snatch a stack of cards from the library.

Good for you!!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:17 AM

Bread and butter? Thats mixing fats with carbs! A big no no. You'll never get the granola-head vote with that!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:18 AM

>>take 2 snorty terrierists fer walk!!!

Hey, are you sure you mean snorty and not farty?

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:19 AM

Lucky Maria-

I think you should go to Vegas with the money, put it all on 18 Black, and start your own PAC.

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:20 AM

900 and counting ... ok folks breath and push!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:20 AM

Barb sayz 'Are u ready"
i say yes! she disappears
time for a haikoo

or two

waiting for wimmin
can kill u or give u time
for play n sm pomez

or three

Jaxxer (the lil snort)
steals my apple and gallops away
time for the walk here!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:20 AM

As for Bill Moyer...

Susan Jacoby, previously unknow to me, was on to discuss religion in the government or government in religion, depending on your point of view.

She gave the best arguments why we need to have a secular govenment I have ever heard. I will read her book but not until I get thru the Da Vinci Code and then David Cay Johnston.

I believe it replays tomorrow night in most markets, but it's on late. Definitely worth a watch.

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:20 AM

Barb jus gimme a smooch says hi!

bye!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:22 AM

I've just about finished it but haven't decided what I want to do.
Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:05 AM
============================================

I was thinking voter registration, but, I did some research on historical election returns and was amazed by what I found. I'm in North Carolina which on every map I've seen is written off as a "Blue State." But, I'm not so sure.

Prior to 88, NC went Dem in every Presidential race going back, like, forever. In 88, Bush I beat Dukakis, but by only about a 1/2 point. In 92, Bush I beat Clinton by about 2 points. In 96, it was Dole over Clinton by about 4 points. And 2000 was Bush II over Gore by about 6 points.

Okay, so, as a trend, it looks nasty. But, the thing that amazed me was that the total Rep votes cast remained virtually steady. The growing margin was due to decreasing Dem votes.

On the registration side, registered Dems outnumber registered Reps by TWO-TO-ONE!!!!!

So, now I'm thinking, election day voter turnout is where I want to concentrate my efforts. In the coming weeks, I'll find the time to find out who my precinct captain is and get involved. I'm sure I'll end up doing phone banks, or door-to-door. Whatever they need. (I've never done anything beyond voting before, but the time has come to get involved!)

The other thing that intrigued me today, listening to OutQ Radio (since I got Sirius, I switch over from AAR to gay radio on the weekends, except my fav Laura Flanders) was a news item that says the DNC has tasked each state with increasing their number of GLBT delegates to the convention to 10%. I wonder what it takes to become a delegate? I'll be asking my precinct captain about that too.

Did you happen to hear the O'Franken Factor bit on Friday about "Bleeding Ohio?"

Posted by: petemoon at May 16, 2004 12:22 AM

..you're on you own now kids, cj has left the blog.

Thanks for a good evening!!!

Posted by: cj_ohio at May 16, 2004 12:23 AM

Tarver just knocked out Jones in the second round.

Tarver dedicated the fight to someone [I didn't understand who he said], but then said,

..."bring all our people home from Iraq so they can be with their families."

Pretty cool.

I did hate to see Jones go down like that, though.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 16, 2004 12:23 AM

Hit me, Francisco!
Twenty-One!! She's a Winner!
Yeah? So is Kerry!

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:23 AM

I got Da Vinci Code for my birthday, but, didn't read it. Is the whole book a mystery/conspiracy thing? I gotta admit I'm not a big fiction reader.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:24 AM

Rico - I may be nuts, but I'm not crazy! LOL! Friend of mine and I were in Lake Tahoe once, walking past the roulette wheels. His 21st birthday gift was a wild weekend of "easy" money and free drinks. He suddenly whips out his wallet and drops a twenty dollar bill on 21. Gets paid in chips when lady luck smiles on him. I had to drag him away from the table assuring him it wasn't that easy.

He finally snaps out of it, holds out his hand full of chips and asks, "How much is this?" When I told him $700 he about fell down.

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:25 AM

OK, Lucky Maria-you have to let me know when you go to Vegas next time!!

You win at the track, your friend's a winner at Vegas-I see how you got the nick...

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:29 AM

second round knockout
demolish devil dubya
mark of the bee sting

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 16, 2004 12:29 AM

I find it kind of funny,
I find it kind of sad,
the dreams in which I'm dying,
are the best I've ever had.

Posted by: frederoil at May 16, 2004 12:31 AM

Think about why this always comes down to who is most "like able" because most people do not spend the time that we do learning to understand terms.

Socialism we understand because god forgive me we are the elite. To the average guy they have nothing left to hang their hats on. BREAD AND BUTTER everyone can understand except maybe the elite.

Kerry has a lot of good bread and butter policies. People aren't stupid but they are ignorant. Show 'em how it helps them personally and they'll buy it...like Bushs lie tax cut. We tried to argue that it was the rich getting it but it didn't work....eyes had already glazed over and homer was going..MMmmm tax cuts....

Bread and butter...How much are you paying for health care....How much is your boss cutting wages to pay for health care? Who pays...why them lying cheating outsourcing multinationals worth trillions that's who...

But won't they just move otu of the country?...and then who are they gonna sell too india? Not without raising their wages....buhahahaha

Bread and butter...

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:32 AM

petemoon - before you give up on voter registration I will pass on a couple of tips I picked up at the Democratic headquarters.

# 1 - New voters and voters who re-register after not voting for at least 3 years are 85% likely to vote that year. The rate drops dramatically after that first year but if you want someone to vote in this election, register them this year.

#2 - Voter registration rolls are public info. Therefore, you can keep a mailing list of all the people you register and mail them a reminder card just before the election. It almost guarantees they will vote.

So, register some democrats, remind them to vote and you can really make a difference.

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:32 AM

I used to go to Atlantic City with the luckiest guy in the world. He would bring $100 and leave with $5000 every Friday for 3 months. Later that year he was riding his hog at 40mph (drunk I'm sorry to say) and got rear ended by a semi goin 70mph .... the bike got pinned under the truck and dragged for a mile ... and this guy walked away from it!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:33 AM

Okie-Dokey, LM. :)

I wouldn't say that I had "given up" on it, anyway. I'm willing to do any-and-everything!!!!!

Posted by: petemoon at May 16, 2004 12:34 AM

WWHVF?

Who would homer vote for?

Ok iI'll quit now...I swear...maybe

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:35 AM

random Sean Hannity Sez blog posting:

Well, being born in New York might not be 'from the country' but that doesn't stop me from listening to country music. I always have a country musician on my show, and play country music during breaks, too.

Why? Well, it all started because I needed a really big fan base of patriotic, yet unintelligent, god-fearing, flag-waving, gun-toting, dixie-chick smashing, rednecks.

Yes, rednecks are the key to my success. They have a history of being ignorant and of hating every single human being that is different from them. They listen to my radio show every day like it's Reverend Bob's Sunday sermon!

Boy, will they believe anything. You see, we have a lot in common. Neither of us can think for ourselves. I might be an extremely wealthy Fox News talk show host, but that doesn't stop me from waving the flag every second of the day in order to fool the average folk of believing that giving me a huge tax break is patriotic. Good ole recnecks.

Oh, and they hate hippies, too. They remember the hippies as the crazy folk from California that forced them to integrate with the negroes.

God bless you, and may God continue to bless America.

Posted by: frederoil at May 16, 2004 12:35 AM

Nik E - That's not lucky, that's freakin' miraculous. I mean winning in Atlantic City so consistently. That isn't easy.

I was always attracted to motorcycles but I always remember my mom telling me when she was teaching me to drive, "If you're the best driver in the world, it guarantees no one else is. All it takes is someone else being a moron for you to pay the price." Road a bike once and decided the thrill wasn't worth the potential price.

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:37 AM

Rico - my first trip to Vegas I didn't sleep for 48 hours. Speaking of which, my adrenaline from today is wearing off.

Good night all. Keep the votes for the trifecta money coming and I'll check the blog tomorrow.

Sleep well.
LM

Posted by: Lucky Maria at May 16, 2004 12:40 AM

Ok fine a serious issue then

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=6228

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:40 AM

World as Will

~~~ They'll get in the ears of congressmen and senators, both dem and repub, and pressure them to end this debacle. ~~~

Yep. There's a Perfect Storm a comin'

Soon, both Presidential candidates will realize that "Stay the Course" is just semantics. It will come to mean nothing and hopefully will never again be used as a reason to continue a war.

Closet Capitolist? Out! OUT!

Without Capitolism, where's the freedom?

Fishgrease is ALL ABOUT Capitolism!

A day's work for a day's pay is Capitolism.

Labor Unions... Capitolism.

A Square Deal... Capitolism.

Real environmental regulations... Capitolism.

Another word stolen by these so-called "Conservatives"

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 16, 2004 12:41 AM

Folks-

I'm sorry-I gotta go too.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Posted by: Rico at May 16, 2004 12:45 AM

I got a million stories about this guy. One time he was riding his bike thru an intersection ... a car pulled out (not seeing him) and he slammed into the front of the car and was sent flying. He landed on a lawn that sprinklers had just watered and slid gently to a stop with not even a scratch. His bike was totaled. The very next day, he found out that one of his uncles had died and left him a car. He picked it up that day. I'm not kidding ... this is the luckiest guy on the planet!

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:46 AM

There was a newsman named Marty Kaplan
Cracking wise with stars and also-rans
Interesting folks who enjoy a good joke
Hey Marty, you have a big radio fan!

Posted by: Secret Identity Haiku at May 16, 2004 12:47 AM

1 billion for AIDS in africa (maybe)
1 billion for alternate fuel
25 billion blank check for shootin people

... whats so serious about that?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:49 AM

read the whole page nik...you'll find something to chew on.

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 12:53 AM

Please feel free to paraphrase ...

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 12:54 AM

marty has the rare gift of clarity.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:56 AM

blue toothing

BUauauauauauHahahahaha!

allyerbaseruz

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 12:58 AM

ya don't like that particluar turn of phrase? ;P

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 01:00 AM

Hello everyone! hey Fishgrease I
emailed you some guestions on Sistani.
Where did the Moveon DVD come from?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:00 AM

MR Next

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:00 AM

hehe

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 01:01 AM

Happy weekend, everyone. :) I take it Mr. Kaufman never made an appearance tonight, or I would have heard it on the news. Bummer...

Or maybe he's just recovering from getting his ass kicked by Al last night. ;-)

Posted by: Harrumph at May 16, 2004 01:01 AM

Darn, I hoped Andy would suprise all
and show up. That would have really been
something!

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:04 AM

eyyy Darlenenbc
como se dice eh?
(italian w/ canadian accent)

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:04 AM

Hello Sunshine so whats the topic tonight
How is the trolling?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:05 AM

Yeah, I thought about heading up to the HOB tonight in LA, but didn't have the time.... still would have been a lot of fun even w/o Andy. Lots of MR listeners there, to be sure.

Posted by: Harrumph at May 16, 2004 01:06 AM

So why didn't you go?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:07 AM

we hilining
no snagz or jellyfish
lots a splitter haikoo
one a 60 pounder!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:07 AM

good... I missed this edition of the Sedition...that's just damned fun to say ;P

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 01:07 AM

I'm here to check the temperature of my favorite blog.

... a little warm. It's hot when its live.

Posted by: Read 7 at May 16, 2004 01:08 AM

fish talk hmmm
Do you guys ever fish BC or Alaska?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:09 AM

GO NOW!!!!!!
probby jus startin to
warm up!

great street scene

give us a report

every half hr

internet expresso

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:09 AM

Titan's Translators in Trouble
http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=10848

Now we're getting down to the nitty gritty

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 01:10 AM

I never get to listen to Sedition. Its just on too damn early.

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 01:10 AM

"So why didn't you go?"

Because the thought of dealing with LA traffic on a Sat. nite was too much to wrap my brain around. So I'm wrapping my brain around a drink and watching the Lakers game instead. ;-)

Posted by: Harrumph at May 16, 2004 01:10 AM

I have listened a few times
when I couldn't sleep
MR is my favorite.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:11 AM

WHat cha drinkin?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:12 AM

I am finishing a Bailey's
One of the cute little bottles.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:14 AM

finishing off the bottle of White Zin one of my coworkers got me for my wedding shower.

It is decidedly White Zinfendell-y with just a hint of cheapness and an aftertaste that will knock your socks off.

It goes great with the Electric Six I'm listening to.

Posted by: Harrumph at May 16, 2004 01:16 AM

So did you guys run
the phungus guy off?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:16 AM

Nothing on here yet about the new Seymour Hersh revelations in May 15th New Yorker, that will blow the lid off this torture scandal!

DONALD RUMSFELD IS A WAR CRIMINAL!

Can't wait to listen to Monday's show to talk about the new revelations!

Posted by: at May 16, 2004 01:16 AM

Sedition is my favorite show...Mark Riley owns...love his style....course Maron is funny as hell and sue has that sweet sweet voice....shwing

Posted by: Nobody at May 16, 2004 01:16 AM

fish talk hmmm
Do you guys ever fish BC or Alaska?
Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:09 AM

ketchikan to Fort Bragg
offshore to 600 mi
seamount tuna fishin
Troller FV Sunshine
home port
Florence Oregon
Crabber dragger longliner
troller
have the 'real' pinnacle
chart rogue river

http://www3.telus.net/Art-Adventures/Boats%20We've%20Built-Fishing/Yachts%20We've%20Built-Fishing/When%20I%20Was%20Skinny.jpg

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:16 AM

WORLD
Report: Rumsfeld policy allowed Abu Ghraib abuse
Pentagon dismisses Hersh article as 'outlandish, conspiratorial'

Saturday, May 15, 2004 Posted: 9:21 PM EDT (0121 GMT)
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld speaks to U.S. troops Thursday at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld speaks to U.S. troops Thursday at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
RELATED
• U.S. probes allegations of Afghan prison abuse
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NEW YORK (CNN) -- The Abu Ghraib prison scandal was not the result of a few misguided soldiers, but of a decision last year by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to expand a clandestine operation against al Qaeda to the treatment of prisoners in Iraq, according to a report in The New Yorker.

Rumsfeld's goal was to bring the success of the secret terrorism program to Iraq in an effort to "generate more intelligence about the growing insurgency," the magazine reports.

The rules governing the secret operation were "Grab whom you must. Do what you want," according to a former intelligence official whom Seymour M. Hersh quotes anonymously in "The Gray Zone."

Posted by: at May 16, 2004 01:18 AM

Darlenenbc,

WOW! That's a lot of questions!

No problem... I'm more flattered than anything else.

Good questions, too. Might take me a day or two.

Thanks,
Fishgrease

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 16, 2004 01:19 AM

Yum I have a great recipe
for cooking fish on a
water soaked cedar board
Have you done that?
Coho is great that way.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:20 AM

Great, Fish. I am looking forward to it.
Have you emailed River?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:21 AM

P2OG-ccording to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--will carry out secret missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among terrorist groups, provoking them into committing violent acts which would then expose them to "counterattack" by U.S. forces.

In other words--and let's say this plainly, clearly and soberly, so that no one can mistake the intention of Rumsfeld's plan--the United States government is planning to use "cover and deception" and secret military operations to provoke murderous terrorist attacks on innocent people. Let's say it again: Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and the other members of the unelected regime in Washington plan to deliberately foment the murder of innocent people--your family, your friends, your lovers, you--in order to further their geopolitical ambitions.

CounterPunch

November 1, 2002

Into the Dark
The Pentagon Plan to Provoke Terrorist Attacks

by CHRIS FLOYD

This age: layers of lime harden in the sick son's blood... There's nowhere to run from the tyrant- epoch... Who else will you kill? Who else glorify? What other lies will you invent?

Osip Mandelshtam,
"1 January 1924"

This column stands foursquare with the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, when he warns that there will be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large. We know, as does the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, that this statement is an incontrovertible fact, a matter of scientific certainty. And how can we and the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, be so sure that there will be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large?

Because these attacks will be instigated at the order of the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense.

This astonishing admission was buried deep in a story which was itself submerged by mounds of gray newsprint and glossy underwear ads in last Sunday's Los Angeles Times. There--in an article by military analyst William Arkin, detailing the vast expansion of the secret armies being massed by the former Nixon bureaucrat now lording it over the Pentagon--came the revelation of Rumsfeld's plan to create "a super-Intelligence Support Activity" that will "bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception."

According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--will carry out secret missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among terrorist groups, provoking them into committing violent acts which would then expose them to "counterattack" by U.S. forces.

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:21 AM

repeat when live:

Turn On
Tune In
Drop In

- Timothy Leary's Head

Timonthy Leary's Head? No NoNoNo it's inside, looking out.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 16, 2004 01:22 AM

Yum I have a great recipe
for cooking fish on a
water soaked cedar board
Have you done that?
Coho is great that way.
Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:20 AM"""

Fantastic lay it on me!
lately bin exploring smoked
and pickled (less lectricity
on de frigideezer)

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:25 AM

Are you saying these murders will happen
in the US? They have been stirring up
trouble in South America for years. And
the born again group is in the Sudan now.
They really get to me.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:25 AM

Are you saying these murders will happen
in the US? They have been stirring up
trouble in South America for years. And
the born again group is in the Sudan now.
They really get to me.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:25 AM"""

you refering to my post?

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:27 AM

Good Day Sunshine; Good Night Sunshine Ku.

Goodnite, Blog Trippers.

Good Party.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 16, 2004 01:27 AM

I'll look it up.
It is simple
You just cut a flat cedar board
You can buy one but I just
had one of my boys cut me one
And you soak it for a couple
Hours in water then put half
a salmon on it or a smaller whole fish
Lemon and pepper it and cook it in the oven
the board keeps it moist and it has
smokey wood taste when done it is great

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:29 AM

Nite PEACE IN

!sweet dreams are made of thisss'

Pointer sisterz

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:30 AM

you refering to my post?

Posted by Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:27 AM

Yes Sunshine Jim, sorry
Is it saying these attacks will happen
in the US?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:31 AM

I'm torn about the Abu Ghraib thing. I definitely think the soldiers involved need to be diciplined. But it's pathetic to see Rummy et al passing the buck once again.

Supporting our soldiers, my ass. You'd think that Rummy, Wolfy and their PNAC friends who have been wetting their pants to invade Iraq for the last 12 years would have had a PLAN once they finally got in there. All they've created is a mess. And now they want to lay 100% of the blame for the abuse on a "few bad apples". They've obviously never heard the one about rot spreading from the core...

Posted by: Harrumph at May 16, 2004 01:32 AM

~~~ Have you emailed River? ~~~

No. I have a few friends in Iraq. One Russian (who hasn't been in Russia for over 20 years) and one Turk (who calls himself Jordanian and speaks better English than I do). I also know a fello who works security there. One of the good guys... definitely not a mercenary. He'll be coming home soon because all he does is sit around inside the Green Zone and play cards. The people he used to escort don't seem to want to go anywhere anymore.

Posted by: Fishgrease at May 16, 2004 01:32 AM

repeat when live:

Turn On
Tune In
Drop In

- Timothy Leary's Head

Timonthy Leary's Head? No NoNoNo it's inside, looking out.

Posted by: PEACE IN at May 16, 2004 01:22 AM

Somebody Dose Me!

Posted by: Under Hipgnosis at May 16, 2004 01:32 AM

My son in law just got back from Iraq
they are already talking about sending
him back again and my daughters baby is due
Sept. I think he may refuse to go.
I am worried how that will turn out.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:34 AM

smokey wood taste when done it is great"

ubetcha tousand tanks 4 dat one

a beauty!

Carry a hibachi on back deck
by gaffing hatch CONK!
out o cleaning trough
inna hot wok diff sauces
veggies let it sit n sizzle
til it smell good
then eat!

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:35 AM

25 more posts and we hit 1000 ...
- will a buzzer go off?
- confetti?
- a duck?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 01:35 AM

Harrumph,
I agree Dummy Rummy knew what was going on.
I know Bush did too. Have you read about
the UN investigations on Afganistan and the
mass murders there?

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:37 AM

25 more posts and we hit 1000 ...
- will a buzzer go off?
- confetti?
- a duck?

LOL maybe Fishgrease hats for all! lol

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:38 AM

Its sooo obvious! If Bush was planning to follow the geneva convention (which again I disagree with, see earlier comments) why in the name of Allah would he preface combat by requiring the US forces could not be brought up on war crimes charges?!?

Posted by: Nik E Poo at May 16, 2004 01:39 AM

Yes Sunshine Jim, sorry
Is it saying these attacks will happen
in the US?
Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:31 AM"""

November 1, 2002

Into the Dark
The Pentagon Plan to Provoke Terrorist Attacks

http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd1101.html

please go read article first, thanks.
then we talk

Posted by: Sunshine Jim at May 16, 2004 01:42 AM

They are Bullys and I hope
they will all be charged with
war crimes when the dust settles.
It makes me sick the way the US has
gone into so many places and
started trouble.

Posted by: Darlenenbc at May 16, 2004 01:43 AM

I saw that the few juvenile foul mouthed juvenile trolls of phungus,celticman, "bible flooder", etc. were only given a stern warning by the Principal and Dean. They don't seem to have much to say if they stick to civil debate on issues.

They are stuck with making up delusional crap for a very unpopular unelected president that has fucked up in every area that can help most children, average americans, seniors, minorities, women, veterans & many more.

Let them post their garbage but it will have no basis in truth, accuracy, facts. Repudiate them every time because you have the truth and the american way on your side.

Posted by: Trollsonprobation at May 16, 2004 01:43 AM

Fishgrease is ALL ABOUT Capitolism!

A day's work for a day's pay is Capitolism.

Labor Unions... Capitolism.

A Square Deal... Capitolism.

Real environmental regulations... Capitolism.
==================

Funny, we were just talking about equivocation tonight in our hou

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